lashilia lashilia
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  • Posted on: 8/2/2005 0:52
Streams #1
I am considering adding a stream onto my 1000+ gallon pond. I wondered if anyone would have any advice for me. Thanks!
seanmckinney seanmckinney
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  • Posted on: 8/2/2005 15:16
Re: Streams #2
Inflowing or outflowing? What drops will there be, if any? How long will the stream be? What sort of pond do you have now and what is the liner? etc etc
lashilia lashilia
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  • Posted on: 20/2/2005 19:34
Re: Streams #3
Sorry I have not replied. I logged on here and wrote a very nice response and my computer dropped it, so it has taken me a while get back on!

I have a 1000+ (4000 liters or so) gal pond with a 100+ gallon 'sump' pond that flows into the main pond (I know this is not really a true sump b/c it is higher that the pond, but you get the idea). I am using 1/4 inch industrial rubber liner in both. I have lillies, pickerel rush, umbrella plants, water irises, and water 'grass' and I use lettuces and hyacinths seaonally in the sump to trap debris. The pond is crystal clear in the summer and filled with a variety of 'rescue' fish and koi, plus frogs and the occasional pesky turtle or snake.

I am not even sure if the stream should attach or if I should start a new pond. I would like to tear out my swimming pool and replace it with a much larger koi spawning pond, but such an endeavor would take a lot of muscle work and time, and a ton of money!

If I do start a stream, I would like it to be at least 100 meters. I would like to keep in it minnows, mosquitofish, perch (maybe), darters, small cats, and possibly crayfish and clams. Hopefully it will be at least a foot or two deep. I live on a hill, so it would flow downhill across my backyard. (I have a very large backyard.) I would use some type of filter so that the smaller fish would not go into the larger pond. Having a feed pond wopuld be neat, but not a neccesity. If I do remove my pool and put in the pond, I will probably not do clams or crayfish so they do not damage the koi. (I know about compatibility issues with indigenious fish and inverts, and in the area I live there are wild grass carp and other cyprinids.)

I'm not sure if I am going to do this at all, just musing about an ideal backyard. Plus we get heavy seasonal railfalls and I could constuct a berm on one side to re-direct the watershed. I would love to have a cement pond with a drain and possibly some kind of ionizer or UV steralizer or something. My pond now is great, but we have it running very smoothly and it provides little challenge.

I just wondered if anyone had established a larger-scale stream before and what problems they might have run across? What pumps do you guys recommend, and would you use activated carbon? How large should the riffles be? What ground-cover plants can get their 'feet wet'? Stuff like that may help me get an idea of what direction I want to go.

Thanks guys!
jamesh jamesh
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  • Posted on: 20/2/2005 21:02
Re: Streams #4
I built a 60m stream an few years back for a client. This was a rocky fast flowing jobby that didnt have fish.
All we did is dig out the channel and line it with buytl then set rocks in mortar to creat pools and ledges etc for the water to flow over.


If you want fish then a slower stream would be needed,
You could make what amounts to a number of narrow ponds with the end of the downhill side slightly lower than the edges and the rear so that water only just spills over into the next pool/stream section. Kind of like a series of long steps. This way fish wont be able to get in to the next section, you would be able to keep a set number of fish in set sections. Water flow would be quite sedate.

Really you need to work out where you want the stream to run then measure the levels to get an Idea of the topography then you can run the stream to those levels.


lashilia lashilia
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  • Posted on: 22/2/2005 15:06
Re: Streams #5
Thanks! That is a great idea! I will try to base my design on something like that. I have drawn pictures and measured, but I am still very much in the day-dreaming process. I want this stream to be very pretty, with shady spots and plants and benches and the like.

Where I live (in the states) there are streams and ponds everywhere. In fact, we have a well established one in the property we own attached to the back of the house on top of a cave. You have to walk quite a way to see it though, and it is very polluted. We also have one in our front property, but it is seasonal. This black rock peaks out of the rocky soil and forms a series of small pools. This one never gets any fish, just inverts. It helps the wildflowers get water, though.

My nieghbor has a pond with wild carp and perch, but it is a nasty hole, and too deep in the middle. A friend of the family has a stream, and he only lives a few blocks away. He lets me catch fish on his place, but there are not many species. There is a great river about half and hour away, but it is very fast-moving and deep, and it is dangerous to go alone. There are wild mosquito fish here, and minnows and such. If I kept a stream, I would put little fish like those in it. Darters would be a good choice for slower pools, I think. In the deeper parts of the river, there are great catfish and paddlefish and huge alligator snapping turtles. I would aviod guys like these.

The conservation people allow me to take non-endangered wild fish from the rivers. Legality is not an issue here, merely what fish to choose! I will then have to design something around their needs.
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  • Posted on: 22/2/2005 15:14
Re: Streams #6
My Goodness lashilia I am totaly bowled over as it sounds fantastic were you live have you got any photos to show us
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Re: Streams #7
yea could do with an day to day diary, planner thingy or blog, of what you do when, be great, di
seanmckinney seanmckinney
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  • Posted on: 26/2/2005 13:57
Re: Streams #8
BTW this reponse is growing in length so I have stopped checking what I have written so excuse any typos.
I am also fairly sure that some of the points, if not all, will need clarification so dont be afraid to ask.


Where are you? USA, UK or Europe etc? "Turtle" makes me think not UK
Wow that's some liner and ...well,,,,,,,that's some stream. Yes you can attach such a stream to the pond. If the original and new liners are compatible some of the roofing rubber glues may be suitable for making the joint but you would need to check that. If glue is not applicable then liner seaming tape will work between most liners irrespective of the materials, this tape is a double side rubbery strip availble by the ft, or m or in rolls.
With regard to the stream you face a number of problems.
1) Drain down volume, ie what happens when the pump is not running. My suggestion would be divide the stream into a series of horizontal sections seperated by water falls or rapids. The outlet from each section being controlled by a wier so that the flow over the wier is wide and shallow, that way you limit the amount of water that will drain into the pond when the pump is off. It would be even better if you could come up with some form of automatically opening and closing gates or wiers that would prevent any drain down, these should fail-safe closed.
What ever this stream drains into has to be able to cope with the drain down volume and the 'loss' of water when the system "pumps up". Realistically this 'tank' should have a large surface area so that the resulting changes in level are minimised.
2) Plumbing. With a stream 100m or so long you will probably have a long way to pump water from the pond/tank to the head of the stream. I suggest you think of soild pipe with a bore of at least 3", pumping water through pipe uses energy and you pay for this energy.
The narrower the pipe the more energy required, the higher the flowrate the more energy required etc etc.
I have 101ft of pipe and that is 4". You will probably find various sites talking about pipe losses, pipe losses are the energy losses associated with pumping water through pipe. Pipe losses are generally quoted as feet of head, say Xft, since they can be seen as the pressure that exists at the base of a column of water Xft tall, that pressure is a measure of the force required to push the water through the pipe and as such a measure of the energy consumed .
Now, in my 101ft of 4" pipe my pipe losses are under 5", yes that is inches, and I am shifting about 1633UK gph, 1960US gph. As a comparison, at one point the system incuded about 18" of 1.5" pipe and the losses were at least 12" more than now and the flow rate would have been lower then too.

With regard to pump selection, to some extent that depends on where you are, however pumps fall into 2 general categories, submersibles and externals, generally externals cost more to buy but they are more efficient to run and, in the long run, cheaper, they also are generally available with larger flowrates than submersibles. If you are US based then sequence and limm pumps seem quite popular externals and are a good buy. If you are UK base sequence pumps are available here from places like ER koi. With regard to submersibles I like Oase Aquamaxes, they are efficient and have a good reputation and were available up to 15000lph, the promax may be up to 30000lph, hozelok titans also seem to be reliable but check their efficiency, some arent as good as the Oase. Those are the only submersibles I have experience of and can comment on.
The actual flowrate you will require depends on the effect you desire, it is said that a waterfall requires 50UK gph per inch of width so a one ft wide fall would require 600UKgph. My 1633UK gph goes over a 1ft wide fall and I dont think that the effect is excessive. I would use the waterfall effect criterion to determine your flowrate, incidently a 3ft wide weir can feed a 1ft wide fall , there is no need for the falls to be as wide as the wiers.


That will do for the moment
boroughmal boroughmal
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2005 18:20
Re: Streams #9
Seems like you guys know what you are talking about.I was going to post on this topic but there are far greater men than me Gungadin.
Seems like the product is reproducing mother nature, will it ever get built?
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p.s. Sounds like you want the services of Harroquip co Main st Hull East yorks HU20lF Fluid handling specialists.
And some sort of regeneration of power if you have the height.