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Wurzel Wurzel
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 13:22
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #11
All i have to say is this is the professionaly done thing and is done in every major aquarium in the uk. I have to say ive watched fish subjected to this and none of the fish ive seen showed any signs of distress. Werent swimming around in agony and had generaly stopped moving after 20 min. Around the same time it takes to clove oil them to sleep. Maybe its not the best way but im totaly sure that the fish is unconcious far before any ice crystals have formed in the water let alone inside the fish so it freezing to death whilst still concious is highly unlikely. After all how are ice crystals going to form inside the fish if the water its swimming in hasnt begun to freeze yet? just a thought...
Fishy-Fishy Fishy-Fishy
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 13:26
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #12
Well nobody knows for sure how humane the freezing method is so IMO it is always best to go with the clove oil/vodka way. It's uncomplicated, peaceful and not traumatic (for you or the fish) and being killed by vodka has to be a good send off
suey2 suey2
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 13:34
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #13
I'm with Fishy-Fishy on this one - I've had the misfortune to have to euthanise a fish, the clove oil and vodka was very peaceful, he went to sleep almost immediately. And he died in company rather than alone in the freezer - a nicer end all round IMO
It's Not Just A Fish
EagleC EagleC
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Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #14
I've been to London Aquarium recently and was very unimpressed with the knowledge of the staff and the care of the fish. I wouldn't trust or believe anything they told me after that visit, certainly not with regards to fish welfare.

Some reading of relevance.
http://www.petplace.com/fish/euthanasia-in-fish/page1.aspx

Quote:

> The American Veterinary Medical Assoc. and the USDA do not consider
> freezing fish as a humane method of euthanasia; and if done, or
> suggested, by a veterinarian it presumably could be construed as
> malpractice!
Wurzel Wurzel
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 16:18
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #15
Some one needs to tell nigh on every major aquarium in europe this because its seen as good practice! plus i think they may have reasons to freeze them such as autopsy ect. i have to say the new floor staff at london aquarium are not that informed on the fish they keep and more often than not they will make stuff up to fill in gaps (especialy the floor staff who arent trained in anything!). So im not to impressed with them either as ive caught them out a couple of times on things, especialy on cold water marine stuff. However the people that work behind the sceans do know what they are doing, and alot of the work that gos on back stage so to speak is unseen by anyone visiting the aquarium. I also have to say that im sure alot of the floor staff have no idea that their sick fish are frozen to death. Having worked both the floor and behind the sceans i can safely say that both sets of staff both live in different worlds. The only thing i have to say in their defence is i have seen alot worse aquaria than London, the national marine aquarium in Plymouth for example is a disgrace, over half its fish are deformed or have some sort of disease, youd be hard pressed to find that in London. Im willing to accept that freezing fish to death may be mildly cruel BUT compared to some methods ive seen and if clove oil isnt availiable what else can you do??? The only other thing ive seen was electricution and i have to say that looked less than humane. This is turning into quite a heated discussion
Goldy Goldy
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 16:31
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #16
Over the years there have been many ways suggested on how to kill fish, like hitting them with a sharp blow for example, and then later freezing but as time has gone by they have come up with gentler ways to do this and the clove oil and vodka I have found is the easiest and kinder way as they just peacefully go to sleep no pain or stress

Euthanasia
It's come to this has it? You've read all the FAQs, found out everything you can about diseases, ailments and the proper treatments, asked for help from several knowledgeable sources and have come to the conclusion that you cannot nurse your fish back to health. And since you took on the responsibility of caring for the fish you now must find the most humane method in helping it to die.

Several options exist for euthanizing your ill pet. They include chemicals, decapitation, and donation. The best method is probably through the use of chemicals. A few vets recommend an overdose of MS-222, a fish anesthetic. It can be purchased from chemical supply companies as MS-222, tricaine methanesulfonate or Ethyl 3-aminobenzoate, methanesulfonic acid salt. Immerse the fish in a container of 350 ppm MS-222 (350 mg MS-222 per liter of water) for 10 minutes. This is very humane and is non-traumatic for both the fish and owner. Another chemical method is the injection of pentothal into the abdominal cavity. This may be more difficult for the owner as syringes may be hard to come by and sticking animals with needles may not sit well with some people. It is almost painless for the fish if this helps ease your hesitations regarding this method. Finally one can use alcohol to euthanize a fish. Make a 1:5 (20%) solution of Vodka (or any other similar strong grain neutral alcohol) and water. Then place the fish into the container and it will simply `go to sleep'. These 3 methods are highly recommended as they are very humane.

One method that has been recommended by a non-veterinary (but experienced Oscar breeder) type is the use of Alka-Seltzer. Place the fish in a shallow container of water and place 2 Alka-Seltzer tablets in a position under the gills. The fish supposedly will `fall asleep' within minutes.

A non-chemical but effective method is decapitation. Once again, some owners may be squeamish over this method. If done properly is quick and painless for the animal, and has the benefit of being cheap; most of us own knives but not anesthetics. Use a sharp knife and sever the spinal cord by quickly cutting down through the body just behind the eye at the level of the lateral line. The quicker you make this cut the better it will be for the fish. Remember to disinfect this knife after the procedure if you plan on using it for anything other than euthanizing fish.

If you are unable to go through with any of the above methods try contacting a local university. It is possible that one of the departments in biology or similar fields will take your sick fish off your hands. They may use the fish for research and study its disease or will be able to dispose of it properly.

Methods that are not recommended but are often mentioned include variations on freezing. Fish tend to suffer in these procedures. It does not matter whether they cool down slowly when you place them in a bowl of water in the freezer or if the water is already cold from the addition of ice cubes. Fish react to these methods in a negative way, and it is painful to watch. Finally one should NEVER flush a fish down the toilet. This is not an effective method of euthanasia but is a form of torture as the fish ends up in a septic tank or similar place where it is bathed in nasty chemicals and sewage before finally succumbing hours if not days later.
EagleC EagleC
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 17:23
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #17
Wurzel, I'm sure you are right about behind the scenes staff but I was only able to see the public face which really should have been much better. If you can try to compare london aquarium to other capital city attractions around the world you find it appalingly lacking. It's certainly no Seaworld competitor.

Whinging aside for a second, I think freezing after anethesis is quite acceptable. Perhaps this is what they do in the aquariums?

Yes people do get quite heated about the subject or putting their pets to sleep. I think a few fish owners (like me) are a little upset at the general belief that fish are lesser creatures than cats or dogs and therefore not subject to the same animal welfare rules. Would anyone consider putting a dog in the freezer to be humane?

TetraLinz TetraLinz
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  • Posted on: 2/7/2007 17:49
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #18
Quote:

And we usually have vodka in the house anyway


OK, I made myself sound like I have a drink problem there, lol. All I meant was that, like most of the other people on this forum, if I had to put a fish (or any animal for that matter), I would look for the most humane and least stressful method available. If that means buying some clove oil and euthanising with vodka, I'd rather do that than stick my fish in the freezer.

I agree with EagleC - no one would think sticking a dog in a freezer would be a humane form of euthanasia - so why a fish?
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jonesy jonesy
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  • Posted on: 3/7/2007 14:05
Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #19
In response to the 'how can a fish feel the ice crystals forming when the water around it is not frozen'... after the water around the fish has frozen, and it is motionless there are still electrical impulses being generated by the brain-meaning that although the fish may be immobile, it is still capable of physiological sensation (in this case pain). This response has been shown under experimental trial-I am assumining most people are not attaching sensors to their fish when they freeze them to monitor for brain activity. Even if the fish is clinically unconscious when this happens, I'm sure the 20 minutes it takes to reach this stage is no walk in the park...it really is a slow and painful death. Just because people still do it doesn't make it right.
Wurzel Wurzel
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Re: What is the Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish? #20
I know this now! But why the hell do people that are ment to care deeply about the welfare of their fish still belive this is the way to go? I think major aquaria have alot to awnser for. Thanks guys for the re-education! tThank god ive never had to finish off any of my own this way!