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iolanthe iolanthe
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  • Posted on: 24/3/2014 21:43
Goldfish with recurring white lumps #1
Hello,

I hoped I'd never be one of those who joins a fish forum and whose first post is looking for help for a sick fish, but sadly here I am... :(

I have a 10 US gallon tank, 1 pool comet, I've had it for 6yrs now, completely without incident until a few months ago.

The fish started getting a few white lumps, smooth and waxy looking, only visible sideways on and only under the LED tank light, couldnt see them in daylight. I googled and assumed it was ich and started ich medicine. After more googling I though perhaps it didn't look so much like ich after all, lumps were larger and not grain-of-salt-like. Not knowing what to do I started anti fungals, no real improvement but no worsening, and then a course of anti parasiticals. There was an improvement at some point over those few weeks, I'm not sure which med, I used melafix for a few weeks after that and whilst the spots were fewer and smaller, they never completely went. A couple around the tail and one on the side remained, very much smaller though.

The whole time the fish has and continues to behave normally, normal swimming, normal appetite, does not seem in any distress. After yet more googling I thought maybe it was pox, or aging, and there wasn't much I could do? Just regular water changes and monitoring, all seemed fine (with these tiny small remaining lumps, 2 or 3).

Now yesterday the fish suddenly has many more of them and they are larger. I don't have a heater yet but am getting one, and have put aquarium salts in.

I tried to take photos but am hoping this video clip is easier to see. Is this ich? or something else? Excuse the detritus on the clip, just did a water change and stirred up. Video clip---> http://youtu.be/PAGTKxFgZ3g

I threw out my test strip after the change but there was no nitrite/ammonia showing, nitrate was 20, the rest i can't remember.

Many thanks in anticipation for any pointers.

Iolanthe
maccy_g maccy_g
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  • Posted on: 24/3/2014 23:15
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #2
I'm no expert but this looks like ich to me.

When you started the ich treatment did you complete a full treatment or stop and then start on the fungal treatment?
cathie cathie
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  • Posted on: 24/3/2014 23:54
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #3
Have a look at the pics HERE

Looks too big for ich. Lymphocystis?
[url=http://www.bigfishcam
iolanthe iolanthe
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2014 0:00
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #4
It does look like it on that video, doesn't it Maccy_g! Hmm. I will try another clip because in real life it doesn't look so much like any ich photos I'm seeing online, the spots are larger, lumpier and stick out more, it's not like the grain of salt ich photos I've seen, but I'm a complete beginner at treating fish and don't really know what I'm looking for.

I think I did finish the complete ich treatment last time, used the Super Ick liquid brand, took out the carbon filter, added the dosage, waited a few days before adding another one, and then I think a few more after that before a water change. And then I started the fungal and parasite dissolvable tabs after that.

Maybe I should do another ich treatment in the meantime? Or is the salt enough (no heater yet, hurry up Amazon) do you think?

Is it possible that it's ich if nothing new has been added to the tank? (6yrs, just that one fish, no newplants, gravel, nothing introduced at all). Also, no rubbing or strange swimming or anything like that, completely normal behaviour and eating.

Thanks again, your input and advice is much appreciated :)
Violet Violet
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2014 0:02
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #5
Hi there, we seem to be getting a few posts from 'over the pond' in the US, hope we can help

Firstly, please do not blind med. Without a positive ID for disease, you will just add further stress on an already compromised fish.

Ich, looks likes tiny grains of salt scattered all over the fish.

Some more info please here to assist us - pics would be uber helpful too....

Some initial questions we need, too:

1. Can you post actual water results for pH, GH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

2. Do you use a treatment to remove chlorine and chloramine from the tap water?

3. How often do you hoover the gravel, undertake a water change and how much?

4. How do you clean the filter pads/media?

The tank is very small for the fish you have, we usually recommend 48 US gallons (180 UK litres) for just one fish with a good external filter and only while young.

Comets are pond fish, not suited to internal tanks.

If the comet is 6 years old he really should be very large by know, almost fully grown, around 12 inches minus tail. Keeping these fast growing fish in smaller tanks can cause them to stunt

Helpful on line ID Disease too here:

http://www.jbl.de/en/online-hospital/ ... -and-curing-fish-diseases

I think your water quality is triggering this illness, not sure it's Ich, you would see that all the time, something else perhaps. Is the fish flashing/rubbing at all?

Give us some more info/pics and hopefully we can take it from there.

Edit: Lymphocystis, normally presents as lumpy white growths looking a bit like a cauliflower or human wart. It's viral so no treatment for it but thankfully not remotely fatal, but can be contagious.
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iolanthe iolanthe
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2014 0:05
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #6
Thanks Cathie, I can't get that link to work though, sends me to velvet disease, or is that the same thing?

Googling lymphocystis to see now though...
Violet Violet
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Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #7
Velvet looks like 'very' fine white dust, glows/shimmers under torch light when tank lights are off. Can you check and do that to rule out?

TBH, crucial to rectify tank size and water quality to avoid all of this going forwards - see earlier thread.

If fishy does have some disease though, I'm sure FK can point you in the right direction of meds 'if' needed.

Edit: Please do not add salts either. These are fresh water fish and this can do more harm than good. True, salt is useful for nitrite poisoning but it won't work for anything else.

Likely to just make the fish more ill as it tries to osmo regulate.
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iolanthe iolanthe
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2014 0:58
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #8
Thanks Violet. Wow, I had no idea re size of tank or fish. I can rectify tank size but obviously that will sadly not be tomorrow, but asap.

I added salt this morning, do you think I should do another water change to get rid of?

Re your q's, I did a 50% water change earlier today and I only have strips so no very precise readings, but water is currently nitrate 20, no nitrite, hardness 150, chlorine 0, alkalinity 80, ph 7.2.

I use Aquasafe Plus brand dechlorinator.

It's a ceramic media stones bottom, not sure if that's relevant, I stir it up and get what I can with the water change and hoover. I think I've had the stones almost 2yrs.

Filter I replace every 6/8wks, one of those biorb/biube ones. The last few times it's had non-carbon ones in there with the medications I was using. It's been back to carbon for the last change.

Some more clips here - http://youtu.be/d78W8v-64Vs , http://youtu.be/G2tnHDZJY-A , http://youtu.be/iTGo-Qm8GUo

Re velvet, it's not a fine white dust I'd say, it's definitely more warty looking, quite raised on its body, flatter on the fin. I turned all the lights out and shone an LED flashlight on it and it looked like white patches that were just flat white patches. With all lights out and just daylight you can't see the lumps at all.

Thanks again all, will lay off all rx for now and work on getting a larger tank. If there's anything I should be doing apart from monitoring and seeing, all advice is welcome.
Violet Violet
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Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #9
Oh my! a common goldfish in a small biorb, then. Another issue all together TBH! Initially he needs to go into a pond - only when well though - this summer.

Yes, he certainly needs to be a much bigger rectangular tank asap and in the interim. Think food safe, so fish safe, plastic storage crates as an emergency measure.

Dip tests are awful I'm afraid and not accurate. Most of us here use these two

API Freshwater Kit:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trk ... st+kit&_sacat=0&_from=R40

API GH& GH Kit:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odk ... &_nkw=api+gh+kh+&_sacat=0

Upgrading from a biorb, more tricky, than upgrading from a normal tank and filter. Have some helpful info here though, I did it too!

Back in a jiffy!
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Violet Violet
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  • Posted on: 25/3/2014 1:16
Re: Goldfish with recurring white lumps #10
Quote:

This is a bit trickier when coming from a biorb, as most of the bacteria you already have are living in that hard rough substrate but it can be achieved with the help of a few pop socks and you'll need to work quite quickly!

1. Move the fish into a housing container bucket using some of the existing water.

2. Put the existing foam from the bottom of the circular biorb filter into the new filter, this will help pre seed the new media. It doesn?t have to fit exactly you can chop it if needs be and just squish it in. Turn on.

3. As for the remaining rough media from the biorb, try to work fast to avoid it drying out. Put all of it into a few pop socks or the ends of a stocking and then dangle it in the tank, ideally so it's in front of the new filter outlet.

You can use something like sticky tape to hold it in place on the outside of the tank as this will only be temporary. The existing bacteria needs a constant source of aerated water to keep it alive and some water flow over the media will be good. Top up to the final level (pre treated water only)

4. Add the fishies, bagged first and treat as you would for any new aclimatisation process. Same amount of bacteria that you had before but more water volume.

It won?t look very pretty lol but this is only for a short time. You shouldn?t see much of the existing bacteria die back but test daily for the next few weeks to you can spot any potential spikes.

The old media bags needs to stay in situ for 6-8 weeks to give the new media time to colonise. If water readings are good after that, Ammonia and Nitrite nil, Nitrate less than 40ppm but ideally less than 20ppm, the old media in the pop socks can then be removed very gradually, over a few more weeks.
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