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amusingmax amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:09
siamese fighter death #1
Hi everyone,

i am new to this so looking for some help

i have a new is tank that has been set up for a month ish. i have a number of fish in there at the moment

a few guppies a couple glass fish and a couple of clown loach and also 2 snails. (the loach are small and leave the snails alone)

I noticed that my fighter was laying on the bottom and only moving a bit. he had also changed colour. from a blue to a kinda silver colour this was in a 24 hour period. the next day he died i did a water test and the amnia was at 1.0 so i put some amonia eqelizer in to the water to help.

i had also done a water change a few days before and cleaned the fiters as the water was looking merky. thanks for your help people

Amusingmax
amusingmax amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:17
Re: siamese fighter death #2
i also have 2 plecks in there as well should of said that soz and it is a 60 ltr tank
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:21
Re: siamese fighter death #3
Hi and welcome to FK,

Firstly can you add a few details please?

WHat is the size of your tank in litres or gallons (post dimensions if not sure)?

How long has it been set up?

Was it cycled for 4-6 weeks using a surce of ammonia before adding fish?

WHat are the pH and hardness of your water?

How often do you do a partial water change and how much each time?

Those details will help a lot, but in the meantime the death of the Betta will most likely have been due to the ammonia in the tank. Ammonia should always read 0, so I'm guessing the tank isn't yet cycled and this is likely to be an ongoing problem for a while for your other fish.

Aside from that, Bettas aren't really suited to living with other fish; they are best kept on their own, so he may have been stressed which would possibly have contributed, and also the Guppies may have nipped at his fins.

The other thing is water pH and hardness. Bettas are soft water fish who like a low pH, as do the loaches you have, but Guppies like hard water with a high pH, so one or other will be suffering from being in the wrong type of water. If you have hard water that may also have contributed to his demise.

If you can post back with answers to the questions above we can advise further, but for now you need to monitor ammonia and nirite daily and if either are above 0 change 25% of the tank water with fresh water, treated with your usual conditioner. You may have to kep this up for a few weeks until the tank is cycled, but it will give the remaining fish the best chance of surviving.

This article explains the nitrogen cycle, which is what needs to be established to keep the water safe. It's best to establish the cycle without fish, but as you have fish already, the water changes will minimise the effect of the toxins while the cycle becomes complete.

HTH, and any questions, just ask
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:27
Re: siamese fighter death #4
Quote:

amusingmax wrote:
i also have 2 plecks in there as well should of said that soz and it is a 60 ltr tank


Whoops ...OK what kind of Plecs are they? It looks to me like apart from the tank not being cycled, you're way overstocked for a 60 litre, and the tank is too small for some of your fish. Clown Loaches need to be in groups of 6, reach up to 16 inches long and need a minimum of a 6ft 500 litre tank. Plecs mostly reach up to 2ft, produce huge amounts of waste and also need very big tanks.

I think aside from anything else you really need to rethink your stock as the tank just isn't suitable for some of them, and you have fish with widely varying requirements in terms of water pH and hardness.
amusingmax amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:32
Re: siamese fighter death #5
Hi thanks for the reply so quick

it is a 60 ltr tank.
the tanks has been set up for a month.

it has 2 filters in as the 2 shops have advised me the filer it came with was not great as was carbon only. so i have a bio filter as well and over the week removing the carbon pouches and replacing with bio.

some more details on it for you i had it set up for a week before i placed any fish in to the tank it is my 1st one and took a sample to the pet shop where i got the fish and they okd it for fish and have een goign back to them each week for more fish as they said that i could.

i did my my 1st water change this week as the water was mirky i thaught this was down to the live plants that i had in there. as the fish were ripping them to shreads i have since taken these out and replaced with fake ones.

i have just checked on my water supplies web site and i do have hard water in my area.

from my last test the ph was high on it i belive 7.6

how long would u normally recomend leaving the conditioner in the water before adding to the tank?

i will also do a full water test tommoz when i am back home and post the results on here.

amusingmax
amusingmax amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 0:35
Re: siamese fighter death #6
Acording to the shop where i go the plecks ( same place i got the tank) they only grow to 1.5 " each. and the loachs should stay the same as they are now. about 1.5"
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 4:47
Re: siamese fighter death #7
Quote:

amusingmax wrote:
i will also do a full water test tommoz when i am back home and post the results on here. amusingmax


Why would you want to do a full water change?

Your water is murky because it is trying to cycle. Only ever do a 25-30% water change at any one time. As your tank is currently trying to cycle you are seeing a bacterial bloom which will clear as the cycle progresses.

Test your water every day, your test results when cycled should read, Ammonia 0 NitrIte 0 with Nitrates as low as possible, you will never get your nitrate to 0 as this is the final stage of the nitrogen cycle which needs to be diluted during a weekly partial water change. Anything other than the results above, require daily partial water changes to relieve the stress and toxins on the fish.

As Noodle said you have some decisions to make on which of the fish you can keep in your water and tank size as not all your fish are suitable.

PS. live plants are the best option for fish and can only improve your water quality as long as they are not dead and rotting, and your fish will eat them as you've seen and is good for their diet.
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 9:15
Re: siamese fighter death #8
Quote:

amusingmax wrote:
Acording to the shop where i go the plecks ( same place i got the tank) they only grow to 1.5 " each. and the loachs should stay the same as they are now. about 1.5"


OK, well whoever told you that knows nothing about fish as there isn't any Pleco that small. Either the fish will grow bigger (how much depends on what type of pleco they are), or they are mislabelled and are not Plecos at all. If you can upload a picture we'll try and identify them.

As for the Clown Loaches, that is completely wrong - the only way a Clown Loach could possibly stay that small would be if it was kept in too small a tank and seriously starved - that would result in stunting which is a very unpleasant condition for the fish. Have a look at the caresheet for Clown Loaches which tells you how big they get and what kind of care they need.

Quote:
i did my my 1st water change this week as the water was mirky


As JB says, the murkyness is down to the tank attempting to cycle. Water changes of 25% are needed every week on a normally stocked, fully cycled tank. In an overstocked tank like yours they need to be more frequent, and if the tank hasn't cycled and has readings for ammonia and/or nitrite they need doing daily to dilute the toxins and give the fish a chance of surviving.

Quote:
i have just checked on my water supplies web site and i do have hard water in my area.

from my last test the ph was high on it i belive 7.6


In that case, the water isn't suitable for Clown Loaches, or really for the Plecs and was too hard and alkaline for the Betta as well.

As the Clowns and Plecs will get much too big for the tank and you are overstocked anyway, I think the best thing you can do for all your fish is return them to the shop and just keep the Glass Fish and Guppies as they will do fine with that pH and hardness.

Quote:
how long would u normally recomend leaving the conditioner in the water before adding to the tank?


Just mix in the right amount and you can add the water to the tank immediately as long as you've brought it up to the same temperature as the tank.

HTH
amusingmax amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 13:16
Re: siamese fighter death #9
Hi Guys


thank for all your advise i did not do a full water change it was a full water test i was going to do with my test kit soz for conushion.

when i did the water change the over day i did about 40% i know now that is to much and will look at doing and will look at doing a water change daily on the tank now.

Like i said i am completly new to this i will take some pics tonight for you to see my set up and what i have done.

i was told in my tank

that is
60ltr
2 by 1 by 1 foot that i could have about 25 fish in the tank is this incorrect?
i know it does depend on the size of the fish.
amusingmax
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  • Posted on: 14/8/2011 13:25
Re: siamese fighter death #10
Hi,

I'm afraid that that is a very optimistic expectation for stocking a 60L tank.

This size of tank can only cope with six or so small shoaling fish like White Cloud Mountain Minnows or Guppys etc.

For example I have a 60L in which i have a single male Betta and four shrimp.

Check out the Caresheets for tank requirements

JON
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