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buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 26/4/2009 16:35
Buggy sick, please help! #1
Hey folks,

Ive just checked my tank and found that Buggy has patches or redness , almost like bruising at the ends of his tail. The red patches seem symetrical on both sides and he seems to have small cottony patches on or near the edges of his tail on one side. Ge also has 1 or 2 small cottony spots on the side of his body. This has literally appeared in the last few hour as i checked the tank whan i got up and there was no sign of anything.
I checked the water yesterday and did a big water change as well and the perameters are better than they usually are. No change in PH either.

However, a few weeks ago i bought a black moor and added it to the tank. Over the past few days i have gotten up each morning to find 1 dead WCMM. The first morning this happened it was the largest minnow which ive had for a few years. Put it down to age. Yesterday i got up and another was dead. This one looked as iff one of his fins was ripped and he looked bruised, like in a fight. The first had no lumps or discoloration. I checked the water perams and they were fine but id did a 40 odd % water change anyway to be on the safe side. (Treated, room temp water as usual). Did big gravel vac as well.

Then this morning noticed that WCMM was missing totally, assumed eaten.

Ive never lost any minnows before and now bugs tail is looking bad.

The moor is back in the Q tank because im not 100% convinced that its not him attacking the other fish and wonder if the cottony type little growths are a secondary problem.
I just dont know anymore. If buggy goes then thats the end for me, i cant keep going if i lose him as well as all the minnows, the little black moor and the fighter in such a short space of time. Please someone tell me what to do?
Ive pimad and melad the tank this afternoon just in case but dont know where to go from here. Hubby is trying to get a photo but as he's just as active as before its hard to get one. i'll post one when i have.
TetraLinz TetraLinz
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  • Posted on: 26/4/2009 16:48
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #2
Oh Bugs!! How awful for you!

Did you QT the new fish before you added him into Buggy's tank? If so, how long for? (Apologies if you mentioned this in an earlier thread - it's just hard to keep track of things).

Any of the WCMMs have the cottony growths on them? Roughly how long ago was the new moor added?

Sounds like it's a bacterial infection to me. Probably worth going straight to LHG tbh.
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buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 26/4/2009 17:08
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #3
Thanks Linz,
New moor was Q'd for 3 1/2 weeks and added about 2 1/2 weeks ago maybe? Hes been fine and he's not showing any signs of anything. The WCMM's didnt/ dont have any marks at all, no spots or rubbing or rdness. Nothing.
I did think ich (or itch or ick or whatever its called) but the trops had that before and it does not look like what they had, no flicking or rubbing and more cottony rather than "grains of salt". Ive managed to get the best photo i can, ill try to load it now.

Ive pm's LHG to ask him to look at the post so im hoping i can get stared soon on anything i can to help him. Of course typical these things start on a sunday night...
The pict wont load very clear but it at least shows you the redness on the tail and the size of some of the little cottony spots. Cant get a better one im afraid.

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longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 26/4/2009 21:32
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #4
Looks like a fairly classic finrot bacterium going to work, small flecks are just localised skin infections, but the red veins in the tail are a bit more serious showing that theres some hypervascularisation, either from o2 starvation or the beginnings of septacaemia. What are the latest water stats?

If they do come up ok, i'd go to the next step up from mela and pima and go for an organic dye treatment, protozin is worth a shot, or if you feel the disease is accelerating quickly and it does sound like it, perhaps pop to the vet for some antibiotics.
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buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 26/4/2009 22:46
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #5
The stats are looking good , probably because of the large water change yesterday.
is there anything i can use other than protozin? I tried to get that before for the tropics and you just cant get it anywhere near here that ive been able to find.
If he's any worse int eh morining would you recomend the vets for antibiotics? Or try the protozin/other first? Im not sure of any of the vets round here and their knowledge of fish, what shouold i say to them that im even looking for?

Potentialy stupid question: can this sort of thing be brought on by stress in a fish. He seemed to be getting very sressed and panicked yest when i cleaned out the tank, at one point was trying to swim into the gravel and was very panicked! Or is this something which has been introduced into the tank and would therefore require the treatment of all of the fish? (Black moor was moved back to quarantine tank this morn just in case it was a physical harm he was causing to buggys tail).
buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 27/4/2009 6:21
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #6
Update: Ok this morning the small spots on his body have dissapeared, the ones on his dorsal fin have almost gone but the tail small white fluffy splotches and redness are unchanged from yesterday.
longhairedgit longhairedgit
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Re: Buggy sick, please help! #7
In theory yes, a bout of bad stress can temporarily lower the immune system leading to opportunistic pathogens that live in sybstrates and on decor, aeromonas, saprolegnia etc taking hold, especially if the fish has been bombing about hyperventilating like a nutter, then nearly passing out, and scratching itself. Usually takes a fairly long period or a very bad bout of panic indeed to trigger that sort of thing though.

Could be introduced, though most finrot bacteria are almost omnipresent in aquaria anyway. Might just be a strain they arent used to got in on plants, decor or with the introduction of new fish. Whats gone in there recently?

There are numerous anti fungus and finrot cures out there, formalin basic, various dyes, malachite green, methylene blue, etc various manufacturers, waterlife, tetra, esha, interpet, king british, there's bound to be one in a store near you, have a look and see what you can get.

If its accelerating quickly and you dont mind the bill, by all means go to a vet. Given signs of septacaemia its usually a prudent move, by definition septacaemia is blood poisoning meaning the fishs internal tissues are under attack and most shop meds arent very penetrative, meaning furans and antibiotics might be a better option anyway, and if infection progresses really quickly you'd escalate to that sort of med sharpish anyway.
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buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 27/4/2009 7:01
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #8
We put a black moor in there a few weeks back. He was from a reputable source and we quarantined him , he showed no signs of anything, but i suppose he still could have brought something in or like you said, might be something dormant.
Im gonna phone our local fish place and see if they can recomend a good fish vet nearby. Dont know any at all. I take it that the Furans are from the vets as well? What should i be looking for anyway, some kind or oxytetracycline or something?
longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 27/4/2009 7:54
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #9
Yup vets will have oxytetracyclines of one form another almost certainly. Be aware they will nail filter bacteria though.
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buggy buggy
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  • Posted on: 27/4/2009 11:51
Re: Buggy sick, please help! #10
Thanks, i'll get on it and see what i can get done for him.
Filter bacteria being killled can get sorted easily enough i suppose. Easier to sort than fin rot anyway.
Thanks LHG, i'll keep you posted.