furiousferret furiousferret
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  • Posted on: 4/12/2007 14:19
xenopus frogs with health issues #1
i thought they were just getting fat but when they move their skin ripples and just looks horrible. it looks like fluid trapped under the skin. checked the internet and it said it would most likely be bloat and to use tropical fish ani internal bacteria meds. have done so but have since learned it could have been caused by their diet of (nearly totally) bloodworm. thing is they only eat that, live fish and crickets. crickets are iffy to get and i dont want to feed them live fish... any idea on alternates???????

this bloat thing will cure wont it?
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Coralline Coralline
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  • Posted on: 4/12/2007 14:27
Re: xenopus frogs with health issues #2
mine get crickets sometimes. but generally they eat allsorts, they eat catfish pellets, and shrimp, frozen gamma shrimp, prawns, bits of frozen lance fish. althogh i had a problem with one of mine which died, the other three look ok (!) you shouldnt need to resort to feeding them live fish, which isnt a good diet for them anyway.
mine eat pretty much anything that they can get hold of! lol!
Gill

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furiousferret furiousferret
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  • Posted on: 4/12/2007 19:54
Re: xenopus frogs with health issues #3
got a bit of mystery white fish from the fish (food) shop and broke that up for them. the froglets seem to love it, they look like they've swallowed marbles! the big ones aren't that bothered. but then if they're not well then they wouldnt want to eat.

i know they love crickets, ive fed them crickets before and they will actually attack my hand in excitement! but getting crickets is a problem for me as is storing them (curious children + insecure box = disaster). but i do get them when i can.

i think they'll take the white mystery fish over time to suppliment the bloodworm. i tried brine shrimp and prawns but they didnt like them! so fussy! they will eat tropical flake but the size theyre getting this cant be sufficient for them.

the newts they live with are fat porkers as they do eat everything and spend their time hoovering the tank floor!
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longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 5/12/2007 9:08
Re: xenopus frogs with health issues #4
There are lots of causes for swelling in xenopus frogs, the first , and perhaps most common cause is related to the frozen aspect of the diet. Frozen fish in particular often causes problems with thaiminase, a substance that robs the frogs of essential b vitamins, and this leads to hyperthyroidism, loss of efficient co2 exchange in the lungs, radical weight gain and some neurological issues. These are all factors that have osmotic swelling as a secondary consequence.Therefore it is very important to keep the fresh component of a frogs diet high to preseve access to b vitamins, and not to allow a thiaminase to negate the b vitamins that are going tin , or already making the b vitamins in the frogs system useless.

Water quality is of some importance too, bacterial levels wont always show on a test kit, and if theres a lot of waste about amphibians of just about all kinds are martyrs to saprolegnia, and this will affect the osmotic balance of the skin at low level. Obviously at high level they will overtake a frog, blanche out its skin go fluffy, and kill it in short order, so you always have to look out for cleanliness, even if you arent as worried about the ammonia and nitrite and nitrate levels as you would be for a fish. Its definately worth using oxygenators to help gaseous exchange at the surface that will aid removal of harmful decompositional gases that will scorch a frogs skin, and create a difficult environment for saprolegnia to take hold within.

Renal failure is also a prime candidate to be a cause of swelling. A diet too high in beefheart, and bloodworm or other meat products will also cause liver damage, hepatic lipidosis, and the tissies will consequently sswell with water. Excessive vitamin A will have much the same effect, it does much the same thing in reptiles too, water oedema is a known complication. You might find the levels in fishfood too high for these frogs.

Crickets are a useful dietary addition , though you must be careful not to feed them on a diet high in oxylates, so perhaps avoid feeding the crickets on spinaches , sprouts and cabbages prior to offering them to the frogs, sweet potato , orange etc would be better. They can be given yeast additives and this will go to the frog, over time reversing much of the nutritional deficiencies they may be sufferring from, so dont dismiss them out of hand.

An easy way round many of these problems is to provide the frogs with and artificial diet, xenopus diets are commercially available, and tetra reptomin will do as a stand in. Limit the amount of frozen fish you give them, and use other foods such as glassworm and blackworm, which while similar to bloodworm are less fatty. Never use beefheart, and if you give them fish, make it fresh and not from the very fatty groups like salmon and trout, and no tuna either. Other foods are whiteworms, chopped earthworms (home cultured) crickets, recently moulted mealworms, etc.

Giving them live fish such as feeder guppies would seem to be ideal, apart from one major problem, and that is the pathogen known as aeromonas hydrophilia, which is now common as muck in imported fish, and it kills frogs and toads in droves by transmitting to them orally, and causing the condition known as "red leg" which is invariably fatal. With the huge amount of asian fish about, goldies etc, and integrated shop systems your chances of avoiding aeromonas in feeders is practically nil.

Many xenopus are farm raised, so it might be worth trawling the american market on the web for xenopus diets, they will be balanced, and can be used as a major staple with a few treats here and there. They will be the most economical way to feed your frogs on the proviso of course that there arent food recognition problems, and since yours take flake, im assuming they will eat almost anything.
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furiousferret furiousferret
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  • Posted on: 8/12/2007 17:32
Re: xenopus frogs with health issues #5
wow.
im glad i asked now.
im going to do the cricket thing and i have got reptomin but the dont like it. i suppose they would eat it if there was nothing else?
i had no idea there was a xenopus diet available and i will now actively be looking for it.

when i got the frogs i looked them up on the internet and the sites i looked at all said that i shouldnt be using airstones etc as the frogs are very sensitive to the 'noise'. they said that it would be like us trapped in a small room with a hammerdrill 24/7. but if you suggest its ok then i'll get one for them. is it true that they can take pieces of meat and/or dog meat chunks when their bigger? i would have thought it too rich, but the dealer told me thats what he fed his adult on.

the place i got the froglets from said they only needed bloodworm. i do give them earthworms as and when i do the gardening...

i was also giving them insects that came into the house, eg moths (never flies) daddy long legs etc but i was told not to by a shop as they are 'dirty'
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longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 8/12/2007 21:38
Re: xenopus frogs with health issues #6
Nah , most ADF's are kept in aquaria with aerators, they get used to it , much the same as fish do, fish themselves have a hypersensitive lateral line, and thats probably more sensitive than the frog.


ADF's and ither aquatic frogs might take dogfood, but it isnt good for them, while it certainly has vitamins and minerals and plenty of protien it also has animal fats, and much like many reptiles ADF'S and african clawed frogs take no mammalian meat, they cant process the fat from it , and it accumulates directly in the liver, often causing eventual liver failure. Hepatic lipidosis is common in herpetiles. Dog foods are an occassional treat at best and shouldnt be a primary component of the diet.
People who have cane toads, african bullfrogs and ornate horned frogs who can actually take rodents are the exception to the rule, they have a metabolism that can handle animal fats, but even then their owners have to show some real restraint.

While a litte natural food like moths etc are almost unavoidable with aquaria , the combination of lights and water makes for a convincing trap to moths mosquitos etc, you generally shouldnt give them foods collected from the wild, with moths and butterflies theres a real risk of secondary pesticide poisoning,same goes for earthworms, and with craneflies- they are a serious vector for tapeworm, craneflies also happen to be fairly toxic to most creatures. "Dirty" doesnt enter into it really. lol.

A small wormery guaranteed free of pesticide is another option, merely collect baby worms , you can even purchase eggs, and raise your own in bins .
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