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dwss59 dwss59
  • Cichlid Adviser
  • Cichlid Adviser
  • Joined: 25/1/2007 21:03
  • From Hampshire
  • Group: Registered Users Caresheets Advisers Deep End
  • Posts: 824
  • Posted on: 10/5/2008 8:57
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #41
This is begining to get worrying the amount of trouble people seem to have with rams.
The european strains do seem to be stronger than those from the far east but I think the bottom line is, that they're a very sensitive fish that should be sold with more advice than is given.
Sandi, if you're keeping discus succesfully then your water parameters should be spot on for the rams, which just goes to show their weakness.
Test results would be useful though.
Central Americans; once they pop they don't stop!
sandi sandi
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 10/5/2008 3:11
  • From United States
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 4
  • Posted on: 11/5/2008 1:27
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #42
She was dying the day before the water change, I do changes two times a week,about 30%, then yesterday I did a big 60%. temp 86, ph 6.5, nits 0, am o. I wasn't looking to just replace her, I felt bad for him. but she was dead by the time I got done writing. she looked well up to that point. It's really sad, they spawned 3 or 4 time and I was hoping they would get the eggs to last longer. they were starting to get the hang of it. anyway thanks for the help

sandi
sandi sandi
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 10/5/2008 3:11
  • From United States
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 4
  • Posted on: 11/5/2008 1:47
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #43
PH is 6.8, temp I try to keep more at 87 thanks
longhairedgit longhairedgit
  • Disease Adviser
  • Disease Adviser
  • Joined: 10/10/2007 14:03
  • From Gloucestershire
  • Group: Takin' a break...
  • Posts: 3088
  • Posted on: 11/5/2008 3:26
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #44
Jeez 86-87 is really pushing it, even for a ram there should never be a need to go beyond 84f, its a fundamental physics point, you up it beyond 84f and you halve the available oxygen, in a well stocked community that advice could kill half the fish and reduce the filters efficiency by at least 40% . Most rams are perfectly well catered for at 78-80f. 86-87 is pushing the lethal level for the species.

If you find yourself having to keep them at 86f plus to avoid disease your fish are a non-viable line with a metabolically based or disease based immuno problem, and the line should be ended. 75 may a bit low, 80f is about right, 86f is really pushing it, its not good midrange care, its pushing an extreme, their longevity will be affected.

Temp hikes help with metabolic rates and healing to a point, but beyond 84f is pointless because the o2 defecit makes any advantage to the healing rate a moot point. Upper temp levels are a compromise between heat provision for an ectotherm which can help ,and then long term the lack of oxygen will affect their digestion and normal development. Most people will be lucky to break a 2 year longevity with temps over 84f. Any eggs and fry prduced from a fish kept at 86f plus will get high fry die off and be of poor quality too. The best rams are kept pretty much bang on 79-80f. Mine got to 6 years plus, beat that .
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sandi sandi
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 10/5/2008 3:11
  • From United States
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 4
  • Posted on: 11/5/2008 19:21
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #45
thanks for the advice, I'll bump it down to 84. I was told to go higher to bring up young discus.
TetraLinz TetraLinz
  • Home away from home
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  • Joined: 30/5/2007 8:50
  • From Tyne & Wear
  • Group: Registered Users FK Supporter
  • Posts: 4623
  • Posted on: 11/5/2008 20:13
Re: Rams: Bullying, Sexing & General Advice #46
Make sure you bring it down slowly then - by 1 degree per day. Bringing it down too fast will shock the fish.
T.L
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