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ianbo ianbo
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  • Posted on: 29/12/2012 23:39
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #21
I have just looked on the cockney koi/yamitsu website. I have a 4500 liter pond and I have a kockney koi/yamitsu kf 4000 filter and a blagdon force hybrid 1000 l/per hr pump I have 3 90 degree elbows in the pipework to neaten things and a 110 watt kockney koi/yamitsu uv. By the time the water is exiting the filter it is 3000 l/per hour which is the maximum for the filter. I also have cascade waterfall feature and i had a spare fishmate set up which I put before the waterfall for a bit of extra filteration.So I have 2 pumps and filters on the go . The kocney koi far outprforms the fishmate.
I would suggest that you go for the cockney koi and scale it to the size for your pond the kf 2500n should be fine and force hybid 5000 possibly a 36 watt uv(check the flowrate first). if you want to spend more the 4000 will do no even better.or if you dont want to invest as much I can advise on the correct pump for the fishmate as I have this set up also
2010 2010
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  • Posted on: 30/12/2012 2:10
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #22
Quote:
Bluechild wrote:
....does the 3500 have an adjustable flow-rate so that I can reduce it?

No, none of the aqumax pumps have a flow adjuster.

Quote:
Bluechild wrote:
The description says it can handle ponds of 2500l with fish, but what amount of fish does this mean?


FIRST ONE up on google for this filter says "This filter will look after 107cm of fish, and has a maximum flow rate of 1100 lph."


Quote:
Bluechild wrote:Hozelock Ecopower + 2500, does this pump water back up to the pond?

No. (There is no internal pump)

Quote:
Bluechild wrote:
....Is the flow rate of the pump what governs the flow rate of the filter?


Not quite. The filter is designed to have a specific flow rate, its different for each filter. The pump has to be capable of sending the required flow rate to the filter AFTER the flow rate has been checked (Look on the box, or spec sheet)


Max Flow:
3600 litres / 792 gallons
Flow @ 0.5m: 2760 litres / 607 gallons
Flow @ 1.0m: 1920 litres / 422 gallons
Flow @ 1.5m: 1080 litres / 238 gallons
Flow @ 2.0m: 300 litres / 66 gallons

Info from HERE

So, using that info (and your 1m head height) You should get 1920 L / hour going into your filter.

!Your filter has a maximum flow rate of 1100 lph.
Good quality costs. Bear this in mind before you start.

Sorry if my reply is NOT want you want to hear, but what I have said is true.

We can only go by what you type.

A "thank you" costs nothing, but goes a long way.
Bluechild Bluechild
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  • Posted on: 30/12/2012 19:56
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #23
As ever, thanks so much for the interest and advice. I'm afraid I'm still not quite "getting" the whole pond thing yet! Ianbo, when you say 'get a filter twice the capacity of your pond' what does "capacity" refer to? Is it the flow rate? ie do I need a filter with a flow rate of 4600 l/h (my pond volume being 2300l)?

The other thing is, I have had various advice about how many times per hour the volume of the pond should be circulated: 2010 has previously suggested that once every 2 hours is common, with the ideal being once every 4 hours, but others have suggested once per hour. What should I be aiming for with my set-up?

Also, what does the "cm" of fish refer to? Is it the amount of fish per certain amount of water or similar?
Sorry if I sound clueless!
2010 2010
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  • Posted on: 30/12/2012 22:15
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #24
Quote:

Bluechild wrote:
.........others have suggested once per hour. What should I be aiming for with my set-up?


Once every 2-4 hours is fine. Go back, and check where you found "it should be once an hour" you will find that is said by koi keepers. Koi produce a lot of waste and so do need a high turnover for a highly stocked pond. (which yours isn't going to be)


Quote:

Bluechild wrote:
Also, what does the "cm" of fish refer to? Is it the amount of fish per certain amount of water or similar?

It means what it says. Brand Q filter is happy with 105 cm of fish, and brand H filter is happy with 148 cm of fish.
Any more than the quoted figures and the filter can not cope, so the fish will suffer. (The filters mentioned do not exist, they are for illustration purposes only)
Good quality costs. Bear this in mind before you start.

Sorry if my reply is NOT want you want to hear, but what I have said is true.

We can only go by what you type.

A "thank you" costs nothing, but goes a long way.
Bluechild Bluechild
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  • Posted on: 30/12/2012 23:05
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #25
Thanks for the reply, 2010. You're right, of course, the once per hour does refer to koi ponds.
I don't think I made myself clear regarding the cm of fish thing- what does that in itself refer to? Is it total length of fish, amount of fish per litre? I'm afraid I haven't worked out the concept yet! Would you also be able to explain the meaning of filter capacity to me (at the beginning of my last post). Thanks.
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 31/12/2012 0:20
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #26
It means the length of the fish's body excluding tail fin at expected adult size. So for example in a Goldfish pond you'd expect each fish to achieve a maximum of 30cms length and would therefore divide the length quoted for the filter by 30 to reach the number of Goldfish you could stock. A filter rated for 120cms of fish would be OK for 4 adult Goldfish (120/30=4).
ianbo ianbo
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  • Posted on: 31/12/2012 0:32
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #27
When I say capacity i should of said total volume of pond water but as 2010 said if you are not intending keeping koi then your fileration can be a bit smaller as there will be less waste produced. the small kockney koi fiberglass one would be ok also the blagdon force hybrid punp comes with a ball valve which means the water fow rate is adjustable and it is a good punp for handling solids.The only thing to bear in mind is that most of us fish keepers start wanting bigger and better fish in our ponds as the hobby gets hold of us.This is why I suggested to go for a filter capable of filering more than the volume of your pond.the better the filer the more fish stock you can keep. It all depends on how much you want to invest in your set up. do you think you will want to put koi in?
Bluechild Bluechild
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  • Posted on: 31/12/2012 10:08
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #28
Ah, thanks, Fishlady- another piece of the jigsaw!

Ianbo- it makes sense to choose a filter bigger than I think I will need (I did used to have some koi, and would like to again- once I know they aren't going to die!). But then, how does this affect the flow-rate of the pond system? I can't help feeling that this is something of an eternal circle where each element is dependent on the last, and so on.
It sounds like I need to sort my filter first and then work from there. I'm still woefully confused- does the flow-rate of the filter refer to the amount of water it can handle from the pump, before it floods? If that's correct, once the filter has been selected, I'm assuming any pump which has a max flow-rate slightly lower than that of the filter's max capacity would work? Thanks for your patience!
ianbo ianbo
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  • Posted on: 31/12/2012 14:46
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #29
The manufacter will state the max the flow rate. this is the max amount of water you can put through it. if you exceed this it does not work correctly and you could flood.
if you want to keep koi then I ciculate my pond once per hour but a bit eiter side is ok as long as your filter can cope
the cockney koi mulichamber filters are good and cost about
2500 model ?150
4000 moddel &300
ianbo ianbo
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  • Posted on: 31/12/2012 23:06
Re: Help! My pond fish keep dying. #30
rogh costs for a good set would be
cockney koi multi chamber 4000 model filter ?300
Force hybrid 5000 solids handling pump ?100
36 watt uv approx ? 80
piping approx ? 30

approx total ?510


This is for new good quality filteration that should be fine for your pond. The smaller filer would still be ok because I have that would mean that I have scaled everything by half of my pond which is 4500 liters. This smaller filter which would still be adequate would reduce the cost by approx ?150, but as you said it makes sense to go for larger on flteration if possible.

If these set up costs are more than you wish to spend I can advise you how to match the fishmate filter properly as I also have the correct fishmate combintation myself,but I dont want to cause any more confusion at the moment.I think you need to see if the gravity fed box systems are to your liking fist
Good luck and let me know your thoughts