Quote:

still not stopping fishing though too many antis around now. fishermen are good for scientific research and yes they do look after the rivers and fish.

Hey Goldencomet, I dont know if you know or not but The Times seems to have something against angling and its not the first time they have published something which is negative towards the hobby/sport, i dont if you remeber but i poll was lauched about fishing being banned (or something like that) and again that was The Times, therefore i ingore anything they say

The vast majority of anglers care about the fish, there are a few that dont but theres also a few fish keepers who dont care about their fish. Anglering have done alot over the many years, and if it wasnt for anglers the rivers and lakes would not be what they are today. However i also think that anglers are their worst enemeries.

my clown loach is intelectual when i wink it does a back flip HOW COOL CAN YOU GET ! ! ! !

I think most people whove kept goldies have known they have excellent memories and personalities for years. There have , after all, been those who have been trained to formation swim, and even score underwater goals. ( not that I find that especially dignified) Cichlids have some incredible intelligence, particularly as includes any behaviour to do with raising fry, from strategically guarding their territory to assessing their partners potential as a good protective parent. They are among some of the worlds most intelligent fish and early indications show that they show better memory than horses, which most people just wouldnt find credible.

Archerfish as told by the venerable Innes were said to have trained their keeper to feed them , even when attempting to ignore them, by spitting on his newspaper , as he was reading it from across the room.

My fish are fed by me and no-one else as a consequence, I can hand signal them from across the room to indicate a feed is imminent. They will not respond to anyone else doing the same signal, to wit almost all species of tropical fish who have a need to respond can differentiate between humans, learn and remember.

In a way I never considered the possibility that fish wouldnt have a personality, and I am dumbfounded by the people who do. How anyone can look at a fish and not see an intelligence there is beyond me.

Official recognition is always nice though, and while ive known for a fact that fish can feel pain for 25 years or more , and indeed never believed any evidence to the contrary, its nice to know those stupid scientists have finally found ways to prove it.

Actually I think the first conclusive tests were done about 40 years ago, but it suited mankind not to hear it, and no doubt many people , especially anglers will still not want to hear it, and will continue to live in denial about the torture theyve committed on fish with hooks, and by holding them out of water for extended periods. Not that I have a problem with fishing/ hunting, as long as youre not kidding yourself that the fish cant feel it, and if youre gonna hunt something, youd better bloody well actually need to eat it !

i am a keen fisherman and do understand that fish do indeed feal pain i go to great lengths to minimise this by using such practices as using barbles hooks and unhooking in the worter i dont se the need in houlking a 18plus pound carp out of the woter just to get a picture
but the same can be sed for other sports using a crop in hors raicing shooting fox hunting thank god thats gone the list gose on

i just dont like the bad pres some anglers get by others bad practice the same can be sed for people ho keep fish in bad secumstances and have no intention of caring for them as if they wher a throw away comodaty that have the opinion of it only cost a couple of quid so ill get another one this has coused so much misunderstanding the famous being golfish can be cept in bowls and wont grow big in a small tank

sorry for the rant just mu 2 sence no offence intended to others

I too am an angler, and indeed I do eat much of what I catch, but I am constrained to a certain degree by rules that prevent me from taking smaller/immature fish. This means that some of the fish I catch are returned after being stressed by being caught.

Now, in my mind this is a good thing as it helps stocks by allowing juvenile fish to reach spawning age and help maintain stocks. I accept that the fishes may be distressed by the experience but if handled properly with good speed I honestly believe this can be minimised. Generally the fish go back with no problems.

As for if you're gonna hunt something, you'd better bloody well actually need to eat it! , sorry, but I don't NEED to eat it. I could buy it from a shop, much more humanely caught I'm sure . I eat sheep, pigs and cows too, but I don't NEED to, I choose to fish, it's a bonus I can eat what I catch, but it's still a sport/hobby primarily.

I used to fish for Trout and coarse species as well. Now, they are contained within a given space so, you would definitely find out if the stress was too much and killing them, or come to that mishandling was damaging the slime coat or other problems. Once again they don't generally die off as a result of being caught. Not to mention that certain fish are well documented as being caught again and again and again, now, knowing as we do that they can certainly learn basic tricks, feeding patterns etc, why do they not appear to be able to learn to avoid certain foods, or maybe, they can but choose to take the risk???

Cool :D

HOGWASH. My goldfish are as stupid as my cat.
My Cory cats, on the other hand, are the smartest bottom feeders that I have ever seen. >_>

Quote:

Let's remember that statement only applies to your fish and not perpetuate the myth of goldfish being stupid. We don't need any more excuses for people to mistreat them on the grounds of minimal intelligence. I think many other members would agree with the previous posters. My goldies would certainly disagree with your hogwash statement

Quote:

Hmmm ... According to your profile, you have both species of fish in the same 15-20gal tank, is that right?