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meriad meriad
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #11
Paul, I wonder if it used to be a water feature or fountain vs a pond hence being so close to the house? Just wondering how the Victorian would have built the various fountains; what materials they used?

Have you thought about contacting someone from English Heritage or the National Trust?

And thanks for considering the wildlife

As for preventing wildlife eating your Koi, I suspect the only things that would do that are heron, cats or foxes? And short of netting or grids it's going to be a tough one to protect the fish 100%. Lots of hiding places for them would be the best start?
paulgee paulgee
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #12
Meriad, yes; that is what I would like to turn it into as well as a pond with a central water feature and the English heritage is a good idea because I have no idea now.

The koi are well protected in the large pond as it is very deep and has quite a few plants growing in there so contrary to popular belief koi can live with plants provided they are weighted down enough they do still have a go though, especially if the plant is new, I have found old chimney pots to be ideal for this provided they are completely clean of soot first of course, no sharp edges and heavy enough for the meanest koi.

Just very curios (wildlife eating koi) as there was a conflict there having something to help the wildlife on one hand should they fall in verses terrorising the koi with predators by helping the wildlife on the other.

I suppose a balance in some way would be ideal, the rocks were tapered as to prevent the koi getting too close but enough so something else could climb out, frogs have no problem with it.

Anyway thanks for your input :)
Paul


Quote:

meriad wrote:
Paul, I wonder if it used to be a water feature or fountain vs a pond hence being so close to the house? Just wondering how the Victorian would have built the various fountains; what materials they used?

Have you thought about contacting someone from English Heritage or the National Trust?

And thanks for considering the wildlife

As for preventing wildlife eating your Koi, I suspect the only things that would do that are heron, cats or foxes? And short of netting or grids it's going to be a tough one to protect the fish 100%. Lots of hiding places for them would be the best start?
dismalscientist dismalscientist
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #13
I can't add to any of the pond/ fish related things, but this looks a lot like a dipping pond. There's a very large one at Quarry Bank Mill - the idea I think was to collect rainwater, and gardeners would dip their watering cans in to water fruit and vegetable patches. Of course it could be something entirely different but thought I'd share just in case :)
paulgee paulgee
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #14
Hi dismalscientist: That would make absolute sense actually! The gardens are huge (nearly half an acre) and it?s a constant battle to keep everything in order, I have about 6 IBC 1000ltr containers dotted around the garden collecting rainwater from various greenhouse workshop etc. this makes more sense than anything else and would need to do some more research in this direction.

Of course the gardens have changed considerably over the hundreds of years but there would have had to of been something to do this in order to maintain the garden itself way back then it was twice this size, I find it a bit of a battle myself even with all the modern methods but then the garden is my piece of heaven.

Still does not answer its water retaining capabilities and of course the lime but then this may have dissipated over this length of time and it also could actually be older than initially thought.

Don?t suppose there are any pictures of it at Quarry Bank Mill?

Paul


Quote:

dismalscientist wrote:
I can't add to any of the pond/ fish related things, but this looks a lot like a dipping pond. There's a very large one at Quarry Bank Mill - the idea I think was to collect rainwater, and gardeners would dip their watering cans in to water fruit and vegetable patches. Of course it could be something entirely different but thought I'd share just in case :)
dismalscientist dismalscientist
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #15
That sounds about right then! At Quarry Bank Mill the pond is in the upper gardens, where fruit and veg would have been grown. The nearest water source (other than pond) is a river at the bottom of the hill so I can imagine lugging water up it wouldn't have been fun! I'm guessing that's why they built it.

I don't have any pictures I'm afraid but if you google Victorian "dipping pond" (using the quote marks to make sure it looks for the exact phrase and not pond dipping!) you'll find some images of the Quarry Bank one and some others - I think they were common in kitchen gardens! Quarry Bank is run by the National Trust so I'm sure you could get in touch and they might be able to help! The pond has only been found recently as the gardens have been refurbished so they might have info about construction etc. Hope this helps!
dismalscientist dismalscientist
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #16
P.s. I am getting garden envy hearing about yours! We have a 8' x 6' court yard - the joys of renting! I have filled it with as many pots and planters as I can fit in, but can't wait to buy somewhere where we can go to town on a garden heaven!
paulgee paulgee
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #17
This is actually sounding more and more like it! When I first came here there was a building called a fruit store built in the 50s in place of the original, it had always been there but the old one knocked down because it was a shed and a new one erected out of bricks and mortar, I have turned that into an home office now.

There are tons of fruit tree's in the garden ranging from damson and Victoria plum to apples and pears so I think we may have cracked it, although the pond definitely was not used for watering plants at this time as the elderly lady remembers it having fish in around 70 years ago.

I don't know when mains water was installed but I should imagine this took over the dipping ponds job at that point when going green was not an issue or there were not any hosepipe bans, there also used to be a well here which I am trying to recover all that remains of it at the moment is a breathing pipe sticking out of the ground.

Yes that has been a lot of help, and thank you :)

as for garden heaven I think it's one of those things you work towards in life, I knew what I wanted 20+ years ago it took that time to find it, it had all the facets I wanted in a house and then some, it still surprises me now as I learn more about it even down to the pond outside, so I would say take your ideal dream and work towards it and you will definitely achieve it one day, it has always worked for me anyway.

The only thing that puts a downer on it is ?the weeds? they are vicious for want of better words, the earth is almost black so everything loves it here and grows easily including the weeds :(

I spend all the time I can in it :)

Thanks for your help
Paul

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dismalscientist wrote:
That sounds about right then! At Quarry Bank Mill the pond.....................
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #18
As I said earlier it will be interesting to see what it looks like when empty.

I would say it was never used as nor should it be used as a pond for fish My reasoning is quite simple but easily overlooked.
It has two pipes, one incoming the other outgoing. The incoming pipe comes from the roof run off, along with water will come any crud that is on or gets blown onto the roof, to prevent the pipes from blocking they used large diameter pipes. Constantly changing ph is not good for any fish.

The other thing that is wrong is the outlet pipe.
If it was designed as a fish pond, why have an overflow pipe that big?
In order to stop the area from flooding there is an overflow outlet (Well built fountains have this too) but my concern is that if it was built as a fish pond / to house / home fish what is to stop the fish from escaping when the water level rises? The pipe inlet protrudes into the "Bowl" it is not behind a grille or anything protective, some one who went to all that effort had no intention of it being for fish.

I am sorry to say, but I believe making it into a fish pond or part of a fish pond is a bad idea unless it is modified, but if you do that, where will the rain water go?

Water feature / fountain, yes, pond, no.
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paulgee paulgee
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #19
Why not a pond?

There are a few problems with that Post! It has been used as a pond for 70 years that I know of! The PH has remained consistent over the last 3 years along with other various tests so there is absolutely no impact whatsoever on the water condition.

actually it is the most stable and clear pond I have ever come across that is why I was so curios in the first place being concrete, it has a load of silt in it now primarily not being cleaned out for over 30 years and maybe from the roof but I think 30 years is good going without a clean out!

I think Your valid point in the post was the outlet pipe and I agree; the fact that it has never happened does not necessarily say that it will not but this is easily remedied with a grill of some description.

the new pond is huge in comparison and will cascade into the old pond there is a large circular water feature going in the old pond ?dipping pool? but some really small fish may find their way in there via the cascade if they do they will remain safe.

Could you explain exactly what is wrong with rain water?

The large pond receives gallons of rainwater over its surface in heavy falls and the piece of gutter that services this pond is off a small section of the roof, not all of it! So in a heavy fall it replaces about 10-15% maximum of the water in the dipping pool / Pond!

when testing there is no real radical difference to the pond at all with the % of rainwater.

Paul


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2010 wrote:
As I said earlier it will be interesting to see what it looks like when empty..............................
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Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #20
Try it, and see.
Good quality costs. Bear this in mind before you start.

Sorry if my reply is NOT want you want to hear, but what I have said is true.

We can only go by what you type.

A "thank you" costs nothing, but goes a long way.