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Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 31/5/2013 14:29
Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #11
Unfortunately the size and shape of the Biorb tanks, coupled with their minimal filtration make them unsuitable for many fish at all, and certainly not for anything that could be considered a larger species. I can't think of anything, large or small in the cold water/temperate species' that would do well in one of these
HannahCinnamon HannahCinnamon
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Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #12
Well in that case are there any suitable fish, tropical if that's best and tiny if that is too?
Violet Violet
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Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #13
Just checking in and catching up.

Nope. IMO, nothing really in a 'ball of hell'.

Most fish as far as I know swim from side to side (as opposed to up and down (those awful thin and high tube like tanks). Biorb bowls are just awful too, lack of surface area, lack of o2 and poor viewing.

Long square/oblong tanks FAB.
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Miss Dorsal Miss Dorsal
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  • Posted on: 2/11/2013 0:24
Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #14
What would you say the minimum size tank is?

I've not had any issues with my fish being stunted at my own doing, my tanks are not ideal size but my fish seem to grow. I put it down to plenty of water changes, keeping hormones and nitrates low. I own four tanks and it's tiring but I'm willing to do whatever needed to keep them happy.

I was going to get a 500 litre tank but my housing association said my floor wouldn't take the weight :/

Some of my fish wouldn't be alive now if I hadn't of taken them. Arthur is a big Ry I acquired in August, I saw him in with the Koi at one of my local garden centres. He looked distressed, I asked them why he was in there and they said nobody wanted him. I was horrified because they said he only had one week left then....curtains! He's incredibly handsome. He's in a 115 litre tank with a small (fast growing) black Oranda. It goes without saying in the long run he'll need a bigger tank but it is doable to keep them in a small tank temporarily providing you are willing to work your butt off keeping the water healthy. Hence why at 27 I look 37 and have a bad back lol.

Blind Charlie was another one who would never have got a home if it wasn't for me. I saw him and brought him to keep with my female Ry who has a swim bladder problem. They're in a custom made 84 litre tank. I had trouble getting a tank for my female Ry, when she was in a bigger tank, it was waaaay too deep for her and she spent her life miserable floating at the top struggling to get down for food. Since moving her she's happier as she can actually peck around in the gravel. Again though it requires a lot of hard work.

My 160 litre tank is passable when full. The trouble is my other male Ry has developed a swim bladder problem, he seems to be responding to the water level being lower. This again is making the tank too small.

The comet and fantail, who it seems I've rescued just in the nick of time after looking at this thread. Are really the ones that require the least work.

I have issues with living in a first floor flat. I do believe though, if you're willing to strain muscles, put your back out, stay up half the night and generally exhaust yourself, as I do on a daily basis, you can keep them for a while in a tank that isn't ideal.

In the long term I'm going to have to look at moving, some how.

Another issue I've found is getting a tank suitable for fancy goldfish. Everything is so deep.
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 2/11/2013 13:17
Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #15
Quote:

Miss Dorsal wrote:
What would you say the minimum size tank is?


Have a look through these articles which explain the tank size issue and other Goldie related matters

Goldfish Size, Life Expectancy and Tank Size Recommendations

Keeping Goldfish - The Right Way
Violet Violet
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Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #16
Evening Miss Dorsal

Just catching up tonight and noticed this thread too

A response was overlooked - apologies for that.

Quote:
Another issue I've found is getting a tank suitable for fancy goldfish. Everything is so deep.


Not quite sure what you mean by this? Can you expand? I have two fatties (fancies) in a Juwel 180 and they love it making use of all swim space.

The majority of Juwel, Fluval, Rena and APS tanks (the most popular here, it seems) all have fairly standard depth sizes and coldwater keepers have no issues as such.
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Miss Dorsal Miss Dorsal
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Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #17
Hi Miss Violet

Basically I had a female Ryukin in 160 litre tank. She developed floating issues, basically she was stuck floating at the top of the tank and was really miserable. I decided to get another tank and move her out as she needed shallow water, I had to use a plastic tub for a while. I looked around for a tank but everything I found was too deep for her. In the end I got a tank made, it was expensive and it's not big enough at only 84 litres but she's now acting more like a normal fish and not stuck up the top.


In the 160 litre tank another of my Ryukins has developed floating issues. He went to C J Hall vet a few days ago. The vet suggested changing the water level; said that he may respond to deeper or shallow water. As sods law would have it he's responded to the water being shallow. Now this tank is holding 120 litre rather than 160. It needs upgrading to at least 200 litres but I've got the same problem as before, everything will be too deep.

Two options, one is to get another one made a bigger one or find a different container to keep the floaties in. The issue is my Pom Pom Fish is close to the big Ry in his tank so they've got to stay together and the fantail with the female Ry is attached to her. So that has made it so I can't just place the two floaties together and separate them from their mates.

I'm unfortunate to live on the first floor, my housing association said I can't have a 500 litre tank as the floor wouldn't be able to hold that concentrated amount in one place. So I'm stuck having multiple tanks.


I hope nobody here is gonna shoot me, I've been taking advice from a US site since the day I started out keeping. The recommended stocking level there was 2.5 US gallon per inch of fish. That has been my guide, I didn't realise that was totally wrong.

I'm thinking of other containers that would be big but shallow. Maybe a tin bath lined with pond liner; I dunno, anything big enough would be fine. I'm not worried about things being pretty as long as the fish are happy.
Asumel Asumel
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 7:34
Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #18
Quote:

Miss Dorsal wrote:
I hope nobody here is gonna shoot me, I've been taking advice from a US site since the day I started out keeping. The recommended stocking level there was 2.5 US gallon per inch of fish. That has been my guide, I didn't realise that was totally wrong.

I wouldn't be too quick to shout out that the guides given in the US are wrong. as that works out at about 3.7L per cm of fish which is not far off the one recommended here at 4.5L/cm.
There are many stocking density rules floating around, none of them are necessarily wrong. At the end of the day its what you believe is in the best interest of the fish.
I personaly prefer and use a ratio with fish max length and surface area, That then allows for optimum diffusion of gasses in and out of the water and leave me to decide on the other dimensions of the tank, well depth... but I would never go right on the line anyway I would always have the surface area over as it is a minimum.
As for your fish, the fact that she is floaty has noting to do with the depth of the tank. I personally think that is a problem with the swim bladder (obviously I hear you shout) but its could be a remnant of them having stunted growth leading to improper function. or it could be a bacterial related problem affecting the swim bladder. putting it in a shallower tank isn't going to help the underlying problem, if anything make it worse.
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Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 10:17
Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #19
Miss D, no-one here will shoot you for being the victim of poor advice. That's not your fault and we're just interested in helping you to do the best for your fish

Asumel, the advice we give on stocking when using the old inch per gallon rule is always issued with the additional facts that it's very rough guide and is only practical for very small, slim-bodied fish. We would never, ever suggest it as suitable for goldfish, larger fish or many other species' either. Miss Dorsal is right that for a site dedicated to goldfish to be issuing the stocking guide they have as suitable is very, very wrong - typical of the problem with many US based fishkeeping sites unfortunately.
Asumel Asumel
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Re: A tale of four goldfish - how tank size and living conditions can affect fish #20
Quote:

Fishlady wrote:
Asumel, the advice we give on stocking when using the old inch per gallon rule is always issued with the additional facts that it's very rough guide and is only practical for very small, slim-bodied fish. We would never, ever suggest it as suitable for goldfish, larger fish or many other species' either. Miss Dorsal is right that for a site dedicated to goldfish to be issuing the stocking guide they have as suitable is very, very wrong - typical of the problem with many US based fishkeeping sites unfortunately.


With 4.5L/1cm is within your inch per gallon rule so there is nothing wrong with that statement. the recommendations of the US site at 3.7L/cm is still well within your inch per gallon recommendations (according to the converter on this site). As I said they are not necessarily wrong as they are quoting the min levels that could support a fish. As I went on to say "but I would never go right on the line anyway I would always have the surface area over as it is a minimum." by which I meant that these are levels that I would never get close to, for the welfare of the fish.
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