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longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 11/9/2008 18:30
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #11
I assume that would be inoperable were it a tumour or cancer, or put it this way, it would have to be one damn talented vet, besides whats the chances of a symmetry like that off a cancer? Shame the vet couldnt narrow it down a bit. Did they even manage to define if the swelling was solid, gas, or liquid?
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Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 11/9/2008 22:30
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #12
I was offered the option to get an ultra-scan but it wasn't cheap and was at another surgery. No opinion was offered re consistancy of swelling, I was quite surprised she didn't handle the fish but just had a close look at it in the plastic container.

Fish is still pretty active and was splashing around quite a bit when I did a partial water change this evening, it quietened down afterwards.

What are people's thoughts about dosing the rest of the pond with Blagdon's Anti Parasite 5 day treatment. As I get frogspawn and baby fish I'm reasonably happy about the water quality and am just not sure about introducing Fornaldehyde & Methanol to the system.
longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 11/9/2008 23:21
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #13
Wouldnt be much point really, most of these treatments, despite the claims made by the manufacturers have absolutely minimal impact on internal parasites anyway. If only jungle labs antiparasite formula, and furan 2 were available available widely in the uk we could solve a lot of problems ourselves without needing to go through waify consultations not worth moving the fish for, but there we go. Sometimes its worth boning up yourself a bit on some diseases issues, they tend to get a bit more engaged when you take em on a bit.

Veterinary surgery is like everything else, its business, and if you want people to respond a bit and get their heads back where they should be, with the focus on caring , and finding out stuff , all the better to help the client, and doing their best like its a vocation rather than a day job flipping burgers, you have to wake em up a bit. Ive caused a vet or two to swallow hard and blush here or there, but I always get good service.
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Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 14/9/2008 23:56
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #14
Hi Guys,

I got home this evening to find a dead Orfe and the airline out of the plastic container. Don't know how it happened, Cat or the Fish must have knocked it out.
I opened the fish up and found it was full of slightly cloudy liquid, the internal organs looked okay as far as my fish gutting experience could tell.
I'm still none the wiser as to what the problem was; any ideas?

PS I have photos if they might help but wouldn't want to upset anyone by posting them automatically.
longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 6:48
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #15
Sounds like osmotic failure, the swelling would therefore have been dropsy, probably down to a renal organ failure, possibly hepatic lipidosis. Causes can be anything from bacterial infections through to protien levels or fat levels exceeding the norm for the species. Pituitary cancers can also cause other organs to go completely ape and accrue too much fat. If the fluid was really thick, like wallpaper paste, theres a chance it could be down to something like hexamita.

Dont worry about posting pics of post mortem fish, youll see worse at a fishmongers, and it helps people with anatomy etc. If you can take it, after all its your fish, we can take it. Less of an emotional bond and all that. If it helps potentially protect other fish, just go for it. Its worth it.
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Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 20:12
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #16
The fish was about 12" long and weighed 490 grams, 1lb 1.5oz after removal of liquid. Couldn't see any skin problems or pop eyes etc.

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Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 20:15
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #17
Profile after liquid released

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Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 20:22
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #18
I don't know which organs are which but all looked healthy as far as I could see.
Andy.Pyke Andy.Pyke
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 20:43
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #19
Don't know why last photo failed to upload. Trying again.

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longhairedgit longhairedgit
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  • Posted on: 15/9/2008 22:09
Re: Bloated Golden Orfe #20
The organ formation does look pretty normal , but there is quite a bit of fat tissue between organs and prbably in them too, but only a cross section and microscopy would reveal that for sure, but your right, theres no conclusive sign of infection. The upper part of the intesting is pretty packed though, so perhaps far accumulation is a bit abnormal and there is the odd sign of hypertrophy here r there, though its pretty subtle compared to fish who have certainly lived longer carrying more fat.

I would guess its an individual metabolic issue if the other fish appear to be fine, perhaps theres just something hormonal about that particular fish that caused it to accrue fat abnormally, then the renal system packed up, fish lost osmotic balance, then died of organ compression.

Just to check though, what are the actual types and brands of foods are you using? It might also be worth checking the o2 content of the pond, orfe really appreciate high o2 levels, and a low personal o2 can affect the way foods are processed.
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