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merpig merpig
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  • Posted on: 16/7 15:01
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #21
Thanks! I had thought that the soilent green was a complete food but checking the packaging properly it’s recommended for algae eaters so I’ll definitely add a pellet in.

I’ll update once they’ve been on the new food schedule for a while. I’ll be thrilled if I can beat this with diet.
merpig merpig
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  • Posted on: 17/7 15:32
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #22
Unfortunately today the oranda is floating at the top upside down 90% of the time. All parameters are normal (zero ammonia & nitrite, 5ppm nitrate, PH is 7.2)

Tbh I’ve turned the tank light off and stopped looking what’s going on in there. Horrible experience with these fish.
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 17/7 16:31
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #23
All the water quality may read ok, I'd suggest what I call a 'non-invasive water change' - just take out a few jugfuls of water and replace them with dechlorinated water. Water has all sorts of things in it that can't be measured by stress kits, including stress hormones, and a water change will never/rarely do any harm and often can perk up an ailing fish.

Ordinarily I might suggest fasting the tank for a day or two, then start the revised feeding regime. However, I've since been having a think about this and also a think back to my own goldfish (RIP/SIP), in conjunction with what you've said, and wonder if time is of the essence to get these fish onto their proper nutrients and diet before weakness from malnutrition might take over. My last fancy goldfish had recurrent swimbladder problems and, in hindsight, I realised she'd gone several weeks without the proper nutrients and being fed only pea and cucumber, such was my determination to alleviate the swimbladder symptoms - ultimately, I think weakness from this ultimately resulted in her final demise. Although my common/comet goldfish spent a lot of time resting near the top of the tank in his final weeks/months, I did continue feeding the proper food/nutrients but, again given the floating effect post-feeding, I fed very (probably too) sparingly. On the basis of all of this, I think it's pellet time, even a tiny amount each day.
merpig merpig
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  • Posted on: 17/7 17:13
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #24
I think you might be right - the oranda can swim when he wants to so hanging at the top of the tank upside down would say to me that he’s exhausted.

I’ve ordered new life spectrum pellets as they’ve had them before and didn’t have particular issues and they come in tiny pellet sizes for easy digestion. I’ll soak them beforehand too.

In the meantime, I have bloodworms and tubifex worms neither of which I use much but would give them a protein boost, and I have an Aquarian brand flake food which I’m going to check will sink before using.

Calmed down a bit from wanting to throw the towel in earlier, we will solve it eventually! Thanks for your help again.
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 17/7 18:03
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #25
If your bloodworms are live or frozen, definitely feed those rather than the Tubifex ones. Tubifex does have a tendency to swell up in the fish's gut - and I'm reckoning you'd rather avoid that risk!

As for the flakes, pre-soak them in tank water and they'll definitely sink. Additionally, breaking them up into smaller pieces might help too.

Best of luck.
merpig merpig
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  • Posted on: 24/7 13:38
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #26
Hopefully not jinxing anything here, but it’s been a full week since the horrible day where the oranda spent all his time upside down.

Since then, they’ve been absolutely perfect. Not caught the oranda upside down a single time, even late at night. The ryukin is having the same level of floatiness as he’s had for the last few months which is fine (he sometimes goes upside down but never floats still like that, always rights himself). Taking out the floating plants seems to have made a big difference in stopping the air breathing that seems to have affected the oranda.

I ordered repashy super gold to replace the soilent green, and will be feeding it alongside the new life spectrum pellets and peas. I’ll update again in a few weeks but fingers crossed we’ve cracked it!
merpig merpig
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  • Posted on: 23/8 18:16
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #27
Hi - thought I'd give a quick update on what's going on in this tank.

I am overall in a better position than I was when I first started this thread - the loss of one of the ranchu not withstanding. The remaining three fish are all still with us.

The oranda has entirely recovered from the swim bladder issues I posted about on 17/07 that had me about ready to throw in the towel - I removed the floating plants and that seemed to fix her desire to forage at the surface. I added in a piece of wood with anubia planted onto it and piled up their large pebbles around it to give them something to forage around in the lower half of the tank, as I was worried that boredom was playing into the whole issue of her surface breathing as they lack enrichment (the tank being bare bottom because of the ranchu's suicidal desire to eat sand!)

Since 17/07 I have not seen her drift upside down or display anything other than normal active swimming 90% of the time. She does still bottom sit maybe once or twice a day - the issue I was trying to fix in the first place - but almost entirely at night time so I can't say it's not just sleeping behaviour.

The feeding schedule I've adopted is repashy super gold in the morning and new life spectrum pellets in the evening.

It's not perfect, because repashy seems to mess with the ryukin's digestion (go figure) - he is noticeably more floaty after the repashy. However, when I fed pellets twice a day or reduced feeding to once a day, I saw more bottom sitting from the oranda! I think I'll try a different brand of pellets next and keep tinkering with their diet, but none of them seem in any immediate danger and are doing pretty well!

The sand eating ranchu originally was lethargic/heavy breathing - that has completely resolved.

I feel like I'm now on the right track so a big shout out to fcmf for the help and encouragement over the last few months!
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 24/8 13:48
Re: Weird string of unrelated issues? Help with goldfish treatment #28
Thanks for the update, and for the kind words - glad to have been of help.

Managing the situation such as you describe does indeed require tinkering here and there, taking into account the effects on and minimising any adverse impact on the others, etc. The situation does sound much more promising, though, which is great. The bottom-sitting may well indeed be night-time behaviour - I've noticed that some of mine have displayed different behaviour then, as they focus on rest rather than maintaining buoyancy, etc.

Re enrichment: when thinking about my goldfish (RIP/SIP) recently, I recall him having some aquarium pebbles in a corner of his bare-bottom tank as well as heavy-bottomed silk plants that could stand upright on their own. The pebbles were *definitely* large and heavy enough that he couldn't possibly attempt to swallow them; he did tend to forage in/around them, often scattering them down the length of the tank.

Re feeding: it might be worth considering smaller-sized pellets in future if that's possible as it may make them easier to digest, and erring towards feeding 'little and often' such as the same amount ordinarily fed but divided into separate feeds.

Hope that helps, and best of luck.