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Candle321 Candle321
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  • Posted on: 12/9 18:30
Accidental tank acquisition #1
Hi,

New to the forum, so hello! Total newbies to fish keeping, apart from a couple of inherited goldfish in the pond who we never feed and must be 7 years old at the very least!

Four days ago, by strange means constituting a long story, we found out our neighbours were moving and didn't want to take their fish tank, so planned on leaving it behind, with fish actually in it! So we offered to take it, no questions asked.

We now have an Aqua Marine 900 with four bulbs in working order, whether the UV is effective who knows. Online reasearch has told me this is around the 225 - 250 litre mark, yet to take actual measurements as I can't find my darn tape measure.

It has a UFX + filter, which seems to be working i.e. It is moving water in and out!

Finally it had a water heater fixed to 25c. We did some quick panic initial research and removed this.

The tank inhabitants are three weather loaches, juveniles I think, 4", 3" and 3.5" roughly. Plus six tiny White Cloud Mountain Minnows - new additions? They must only be an inch each, average.

We have made a series of mistakes in the last four days, which I shall now fess up to. After reading up on weather loaches we changed the nasty sharp gravel substrate to aquatic sand, took out the plastic plants and ornaments and replaced with live plants, smooth bog wood and smooth river cobbles.

After more reading I bought some water test strips, realising we had possibly removed a large chunk of the bacteria. Oops.

We had effectively done a 75% water change the day we moved the tank (to reduce the weight, fish still in it, then another 50% water change when we changed the substrate.

I am really embarrassed by some aspects of this as I'm normally really conscientious with the care of our animals; but it felt like a sudden and flustered situation.

Anyway, four days later, we have zero ammonia, zero nitrites and nitrates which on the Tetra strips indicate a water change is needed, in the lower range of the two options, changed 25% this morning and tonight it still reads the same.

Seachem Stability and Prime on order, due to arrive over the weekend.

We had never, ever considered keeping fish, we are animal lovers and the cats certainly like their new television lol

But as total newbies to this I'd appreciate any advice on the set up, how we can best care for these little souls and I guess begin a whole new hobby!

Many thanks
Candle321 Candle321
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  • Posted on: 12/9 18:46
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #2
What I forgot to say is - water PH is 7.2. We used tap Safe that we keep for topping up the pond over summer, hardness is within what the Tetra strips says is acceptable.

All fish appear healthy apart from one Loach who has a damaged dorsal fin (the one on its back, is that right?) which seems to be already healed, but at an angle.

They came with Wilko tropical fish flakes but we now have freeze dried brine shrimp, daphnia and sinking spirulina wafers. Only feeding a pinch a day and they go mad for this in two minutes flat - is that enough?

Temp is 19c in the morning but rises to 21c by evening, lights and bubble strip on 10 hours. Filter on 24hrs.

I seriously must have spent over 30 hours reading stuff online since these guys arrived, it's a good job I'm on a weeks leave!
LisaSimon LisaSimon
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  • Posted on: 12/9 19:48
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #3
I am a newbie too so I can’t really offer any advice but just wanted to say I love your story! Goodness knows what would happened to the poor things if you hadn’t stepped in.
I would just say don’t feel embarrassed about making mistakes - I think I have made plenty, you are trying to do the right thing which is a lot more than most and it’s a steep but enjoyable learning curve.

I hope you enjoy your new fishies as much as I am 👍
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 13/9 13:30
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #4
Absolutely loved your story too, and sorry I've not been able to reply before now.

Well done on doing as much research as you can (well-timed leave!) - deciphering the good .v. poor info sources on the internet can be difficult, though, but forums such as these plus the site's Articles and Caresheets sections, and Seriously Fish's species profiles are good sources - it gives up-to-date info on temperature ranges and the other requirements for each.

One factor to bear in mind, with existing and any potential additional fish you might consider, is that fish generally eat any fish that might fit in its mouth.

Make sure that you have tests for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, at the very least - it seems that you do but the ammonia test strips are difficult to read and liquid-based tests are more accurate, so something to bear in mind either once your current batch runs out (or you might prefer to get the ammonia test in liquid format now during this crucial phase when a potential cycle or partial cycle may be underway, then use the test strips afterwards for weekly monitoring once the crucial stage has passed). For water hardness, in terms of choosing potential additional/future fish once this crucial phase has passed, your water/utility company's website will give a more accurate indicator for that than the test strips - usually in CaCO3 or German degrees hardness for your postcode - and we can then advise further on suitable potential stock.

It is very easy to get into a fluster in fishkeeping, even among the most conscientious of us (and regardless of years of experience in fishkeeping) - so I can totally empathise. The key is to keep water quality in optimum condition - ammonia and nitrite at 0, and nitrates at no more than 20 ppm above whatever the nitrate reading is for your tap water. Change ~10% daily for the next few weeks - even if water is optimum quality each day, this helps dilute other things such as stress hormones that standard test kits can't measure for - but more if any of ammonia/nitrite/nitrates is above the aforementioned levels. If water has remained at optimum levels throughout this time, it's likely that the fishtank is/was fine/cycled rather than going through a full-blown cycle, but it may take ~6 weeks of continued monitoring and water changes if water quality is continuing to fluctuate and it is going through a full-blown cycle.

As for the damaged dorsal fin, a fish can adapt to this - my goldfish (RIP) lived for a further 12 years following getting stuck in an ornament and damaging his dorsal fin which healed with a distortion. You could increase feeding to two pinches per day as the fish are likely hungry juveniles, but keep monitoring water quality as described. A good way to think of the filter is as the fishes' life-support machine so, yes - always have it on 24/7 (switch off during cleaning but don't forget to switch it back on immediately after this and tank re-filled with water).

All the best, and I think you'll make great fish "parents", having this right approach. :)
Candle321 Candle321
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  • Posted on: 13/9 16:34
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #5
Hi again and thank you for your replies!

So here goes with the water hardness for our postcode:

Calcium carbonate 284 mg/l
Calcium 113.6 mg/l
Degrees Clark 19.766c
Degrees French 28.4f
Degrees German 16.131 dH
millimoles 2.84 mol/l

Could you advise on a good test kit to buy? I have had a look online and the choice is baffling.

Also, we would perhaps like to add stock in the future but I have read Weather Loaches grow quite large and I have some concern over whether this tank is big enough for three adults plus other fish?

We are have started with the 10% water changes daily and will continue until we feel comfortable with the test results and in line with what you mentioned about stress hormones etc.

I have also fed them a little extra today and every scrap has gone! Aside from the daphnia etc that I already have, can you recommend a quality feed for the whole crew? No offence to Wilko but I'm not confident the flakes are the best quality.

Thanks in advance!
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 13/9 17:18
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #6
Thanks for this.

The water hardness will be fine for the WCMMs - according to the species profile https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tanichthys-albonubes/, they require 90-357 ppm, so your 284 ppm (CaCO3) is fine, and you might well decide to add more; they come in golden and long-finned versions as well as the more standard colour (plus some other variations). Other potential tankmates are mentioned at the end of this species profile, so you could always check those species' requirements (e.g. water hardness and tank size) against your own, but I'll have a think about some potential possiblities that would suit the temperature range of the WCMMs...

As for the weather loaches, this https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/misgurnus-anguillicaudatus/ and this may be helpful https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk ... hes-and-how-to-keep-them/ , and your water is too hard for them, so I'd advise contacting a local fish shop about taking them from you or advertising them to sell / give away locally on www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk

Test kits with good reputations include Salifert, API, JBL, Sera... Food brands with good reputations include Fish Science, Sera, Vitalis, Fluval (e.g. Bug Bites), JBL...
Candle321 Candle321
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  • Posted on: 13/9 17:49
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #7
Oh that's a blow on the Weather Loaches, we have already become quite fond of them in this short space of time!

Is there anything we can do to soften the water perhaps?
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 13/9 18:10
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #8
Is this the tank you have? https://www.aquaone.co.uk/aquamarine_900.php If so, it's 176 litres, with the longest edge being 90 cm. Unfortunately, that's too small for weather loaches. If you were prepared to upgrade the tank to one with the longest edge being 120+ cm (and ideally keep the small WCMMs in a separate tank to ensure their safety), AND you were prepared to use reverse osmosis water https://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_109/ro-freshwater.htm, then you could happily keep the weather loaches.
Candle321 Candle321
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  • Posted on: 15/9 16:53
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #9
The tank model and size is the very same! I shall now try and condense the last few days into one post.

We are going with RO to enable us to keep the loaches, and also a larger aquarium.

Interestingly, after contacting a couple of local aquatic centres we have been advised the WL's can 'tolerate' up to 20dh BUT I'd like to at least lower it from the current 16 to fit better with the advice you supplied.

To fit the larger tank in an ideal position away from excessive sunlight and radiators, we need to remove an old chimney breast. Happily OH is a plumber/builder so this isn't a biggy but it will take time.

He can also install an RO unit under the kitchen sink branching from the domestic cold water inlet, to make things a little easier.

Sooooooo, the purchase of the RO unit is imminent - just need to do a little more research on the best units. Time and effort to maintain this method are not issues.

Finally - considering the current size of the WL's, how much time do we realistically have before the size of the tank becomes detrimental to their health and well being? Do we have weeks or months, or even years?
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 16/9 14:05
Re: Accidental tank acquisition #10
Thanks for the update.

RO water sounds a good plan under the circumstances. Although the aquatic centres may say the fish can 'tolerate' harder, there is a difference between 'surviving' (but consequently leading a shortened lifespan) and 'thriving' (living in the conditions at which the mid-point hardness is generally the optimum level but the range cited is that which bona-fide research identifies as being able to be tolerated) - and I think you've probably gathered that and that it's better to keep the fish in the correct conditions than repeatedly having to medicate to address the effects of sub-suitable conditions.

Since posting the other day, somehow I realised I'd overlooked and omitted to include this https://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... esheet.php?caresheetID=72 - and it looks as though keeping WCMMs together with weather loaches is fine despite the potential size difference, and so possibly one exception to the usual rule-of-thumb of "if it fits in the fish's mouth, the fish will eat it".

All sounds great in terms of the RO unit installation (which I'm afraid I can't help with as I have no experience of these but someone else may be able to) and house renovations - I hope the fish appreciate the admirable effort you're making for them. :)

In terms of size of tank becoming detrimental, it's likely more 'months' than anything else. Fish tend to / ought to reach their adult size within a year or two at most (cf links below and re goldfish), and so stunting and its consequential effects come into play very soon and not able to be redressed if left too late.
http://injaf.org/the-think-tank/tankbusters/
http://injaf.org/articles-guides/do-f ... o-the-size-of-their-tank/
https://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles ... -size-life-expectancy.htm