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lukenterror lukenterror
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  • Posted on: 11/7 9:57
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #11
OK an update. Terror is now in the 145L Tank, I used half water from his pond half clean treated tap water. I've added some of the plants from his pond too as I read they can get rid of ammonia a bit

The important update however Terror had his first salt bath this morning, 10 minutes. Showed no signs of distress, was still lying on side in the salt bath tank and looked relatively calm. After 10 minutes I decided to return him to his 145L tank, unfortunately he had other ideas and jumped on the floor. I got him back to his tank within about 8 seconds of him hitting the floor (not from very high, the tanks are on the floor) and I assumed this would result in the worst. (I've ordered a bigger net.)

Very surprisingly he is now swimming round his 145L tank 75% normal, still swimming on a bit of a tilt, but nowhere near as bad as he has been since he became ill. I am not going to give him another salt bath until tomorrow when the bigger net comes but it looks really positive in terms of he isnt just lying on the bottom of the tank anymore, he's able to navigate the water a lot better (you can tell theres still buoyancy issue a little) but its greatly improved. I will update the progress on the salt bath results once I do the next one. Could 10 mins in an epsom bath and a flap around the living room floor really have done this? It's crazy! :)

One thing I wanted to ask - Terror has had their first run of eSHA2000 treatment over 3 days. I am wondering if its ok to repeat that or not? Something that as yet shows no sign of improvement is his missing scale patches are not getting better - any ideas on that?

I tried to take an update pic, but because my 145L tank does not have clear sides its difficult to get more than a blurred picture.

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fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 11/7 15:08
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #12
Thanks for the update. In spite of his 'adventure' involving dry land, the Epsom salt bath/dip appears to be very promising; let's hope that subsequent ones provide further improvement.

A bigger net and possibly even a jug may help transfer Terror e.g. guiding him with the net into the jug, then gradually manoeuvring the jug upright before gently pouring him into the other.

Almost every time I've used eSHa 2000 treatment, I've had to extend the treatment dosage / repeat it - usually I find that results start to appear around Day 5. No guarantee that this will happen in your case but I definitely think it's worth extending the dosage at least another couple of days.

Keep us posted.
lukenterror lukenterror
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  • Posted on: 12/7 19:01
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #13
He was in good condition for approx 2.5hrs, swimming calmly around the tank mostly upright as I said, but then unfortunately reverted to lying on his side and has buoyancy issue. He just had another salt bath this time about 20 minutes (New net came today). He is lying on his side at the moment as he did last time, he then magically got a new lease of life... hoping the same might occur...

OK Great, I will begin the next esha2000 today taking into account his bigger tank. I've done the initial larger dose, then will continue for 5 days or so with the secondary doses.

Re the epsom salt tank, should I change this? do I need to add more salt every so often or will it just continue to exist as long as there arent water changes?
lukenterror lukenterror
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  • Posted on: 18/7 15:23
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #14
Fyi I am continuing with the salt dips. He doesn't seem distressed in them at all. I am also continuing with the eSHA2000.

I am doing fairly aggressive water changes of his main tank (I do this while he is in the other tank having salt dip) to keep water as good as possible

Terror from the Deep is still very enthusiastic about food, and seems to be able to target the food more legibly but despite this if I go out of the room and come back terror will be lying more or less on his side. Sometimes completely on his side swimming in a circle.

Scale loss has ceased for the most part but the areas the scales are missing from don't really look any better.

Ref the Salt dips could you please tell me if the epsom salts do need to be topped up every so often?
fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 18/7 16:22
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #15
Thanks for the update.

I'm glad that he is continuing to be enthusiastic about food. It seems to me as though this is a long-term condition that he's going to be living with but that he might fare best kept in the 145L/larger tank for the foreseeable future rather than being returned to the pond - how would you feel about this?

I wonder if it might be worth taking a break from the eSHa 2000 treatment, and see how he fares - ie whether he stays much the same or whether he deteriorates. Perhaps continue with the Epsom salt dips as they are until we know whether or not ceasing the eSHa 2000 makes any difference.

Continue the water changes as you've been doing and continue to feed him on food that sinks or is pre-soaked so that it sinks, to avoid him gulping in any air from the surface, and intersperse this with feeding peas (shell off, chopped into small pieces) and possibly other live/frozen food. One individual on another, now-defunct forum used to swear by Repashy Soilent Green - not designed for goldfish but she said she had very beneficial effects from its use with goldfish suffering from buoyancy problems... I just wonder if this might be worth a try..?

This article http://injaf.org/aquarium-fish/the-go ... bladderbuoyancy-problems/ might also be helpful.
lukenterror lukenterror
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  • Posted on: 30/7 7:53
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #16
I feared you may say that. At the moment he has the 145L Tank in the middle of the living room floor and we're currently trying to integrate 2 kittens with our cat, the kittens and cat are on civil terms but I can't let the kittens out unless supervised because we have to ensure they don't go near his tank.

I was thinking if this is going to be the case about getting a proper Aquarium on a stand so its protected and out of the way of prying animals.

I will cease eSHA 2000 and monitor. The last course just finished and have done a good sized water change and re-applied a small amount of aquarium salt and tap safe to his main tank.

He has sinking food now as per your advice so he doesn't gulp air so much. Repashy Soilent Green being ordered now, I will indeed try it! The salt dips have been continuing twice a day, I'm just concerned that the epsom salt might be getting filtered/evaporated from that salt bath and might need more in every so often to actually continue being effective? Will have a read of the article this afternoon too, thank you!
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 30/7 10:19
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #17
Quote:

lukenterror wrote:
I'm just concerned that the epsom salt might be getting filtered/evaporated from that salt bath and might need more in every so often to actually continue being effective?


The Epsom salts won't evaporate, but water will, so the concentration of Epsom salt will be getting stronger as water evaporates. If you top up for evaporation with tap water, the total amount of dissolved solids in the water will increase as all solids from the tap water will also concentrate in the same way - i.e. the water itself will evaporate but the solids in it (calcium, magnesium and other components) won't. Ideally, you need to make up a fresh bath from scratch every week or so.
lukenterror lukenterror
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  • Posted on: 18/8 8:03
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #18
OK Thanks Fishlady I am going to start just making a new one each week then.

Since my last posts not a great deal has changed other than that the previous area terror lost scales from originally had a little reddening around it. We were at our local aquatics centre and asked someone there and he said it was likely bacteria/infection creeping back in - I told him we were using esha2000 he said we should use something stronger but didn't elaborate. We told him about the epsom salt baths and he said we should try marine level tonic salt baths but only for max 3 min (he actually gave us a bag of it for free to help the fish).

Although he seemed very knowledgeable (who doesn't compared to me Lol) I thought I'd best ask about that here before I just go dropping fish in it - could you please let me know your thoughts? Also diet wise I am feeding a mix of solient green, frozen peas and a small amount of sinking pond stick.

I have attached some pics of him in the medical tank they aren't very good as he was moving but hopefully it demonstrates the 'reddening' I was trying too refer to. One pic is just to show the bloat on his one side.

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lukenterror lukenterror
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Re: Very sick fish, please help. #19
The reddening pic.

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fcmf fcmf
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  • Posted on: 20/8 14:45
Re: Very sick fish, please help. #20
There are alternatives to eSHa 2000 such as Waterlife Myxazin, if you wanted to give that a go for a change. However, something much stronger than eSHa 2000 would probably have to be something prescribed by a vet: https://www.fishvetsociety.org.uk/inte ... illing-to-treat-pet-fish/

I'm not entirely sure what marine level tonic salt baths consist of but I believe there is quite a blend of ingredients - what does the ingredients list state, if such a label exists?