Hi,haven't posted for a while, but look in when I can.
I have a 190 litre corner unit, fully cycled, currently I have 2 dwarf gouramis, 6 albino Cory's, 4 bosemami rainbows, 4 dwarf rams, 1 L169, 2 sailfin molly's, 2 black and white molly's, 3 juvenile clown loaches, (I know these will eventually outgrow my tank) and 2 other juvenile fish I forget the name of.
Whilst I believe I could get another few fish in without causing problems, my parameters are spot on, what fish would you good people suggest.

Using the "rough and ready" 1 inch of fish per gallon rule, you 're currently already overstocked by a good margin, and that doesn't include the un-named fish for obvious reasons.

There are other problems with your existing stock too: as you've noted, the tank is too small for Clown Loaches and as they really also need to be in a large social group you should rehome them for their own sakes. The Rainbows should be in a shoal of at least six too, but as you are overstocked you can't add any more.

The other issue is that you have a mixture of hard and soft water fish - what is the hardness and pH of your water? It won't suit all the fish you currently have.

OK, thanks fishlady, wasn't expecting that answer.
The formula for in your words the rough and ready 1" of fish per gallon rule would be considered old school with today's setups, not forgetting the fact, if you keep Malawi successfully, you must over stock.
What do we think happens when we overstock, I think personally fish suffer, they become stressed diseased and in the short term die. Yes you are right, the clown loaches were a mistake, I have already made provisions for their safe removal to a new home, in a species only tank.what should I expect to see long term, my filter is efficient my water parameter's are perfect, my setup is more than capable of supporting my current level.
My fish are healthy, they eat well, they have life plants, they are heath checked better than I am at my doctors.
Are these so called rules applicable with today's setups.
Don't get the impression I am being awkward, there's a debate to be had on that rule we was talking about earlier, that was the point I am making.
But thanks for your answer.

Hi

It's true that the rule of stocking is old but it's basic and can still be true in many cases.

The rule per gallon meant make make sure each fish has it owns space to swim. However, schooling fish like tetras could share that gallon with many individual. Therefore, the rule underestimated the tank's capacity.
On the other hand, fish like cichlids, wether you're talking about peaceful or not, are territorial at some point and become really aggressive when spawning. Each pair would take up the entire tank space if given a chance. So the rule might be wrong again as some fish will require much larger space.
Even small fish like Zebra Danio would require a large space to swim in.

The only reason people overstocked malawi tank is because they need to spread out the aggression to each individual.As a result, you'll need a really strong filter, (which means high current and water movement) to completely filter the tank.

Even the rule might be wrong, i'd have to agree with FishLady that your tank is overstocked because your rams, gouramis are potentially territorial. If you try to apply the malawi tank rule here, it would not work because these fish are much weaker swimmer and strong current would only stress them, especially the slow top dwellers like gouramis.

Also you'll need to decide if you want to go with soft water or hard water fish because having a mixed is never a good idea.

Quote:

Yes as Nathan said this is done with cichlids from Lake Malawi (but quite the opposite strategy is needed with most of the rest of the other few thousand cichlid species' from elsewhere) but you must also use extreme amounts of filtration, increased flow rates and oxygenation and change far more water per week to compensate for the overstocking.

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As already mentioned, that isn't so. You have fish that need hard alkaline water mixed with fish that need soft acidic conditions, fish that need higher temperatures around 28c mixed with others who prefer it cooler and fish who need still, pool like conditions mixed with fish that need a lot of flow and high oxygen levels. What level of nitrate do you have? How has the TDS changed over time? How stable are gh, kh and pH?


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Absolutely yes. The only real advance to make a difference has been more reliable and efficient filtration. This does not allow gross overstocking though as irrespective of efficiency in clearing ammonia and nitrite, fish need space to move and territory to call their own. Some increase in stock with carefully chosen tank mates is afforded by better filtration, but the margin is not great when other factors are taken into account.

Along with swimming space and territory, more fish produce more waste which while the initial ammonia and nitrite may be dealt with by better filters, results in faster accumulation of nitrates, faster depletion of trace elements and minerals, rising TDS, falling kH and thus potential filter crashes and less available oxygen.

At the end of the day, the most you can stretch it to is 2 inches per gallon at expected adult size if tank mates are carefully selected and you are prepared to change upwards of 50% of the water weekly. Your stock at present exceeds even this limit and is an inappropriate mixture of fish.

OK, love being quoted on previous replies.
Your replies are rather condescending, there are those out there that are prepared to learn good fishkeeping, and there are those who like yourselves seem hellbent on talking down to people, we are here to learn, not be treated like children, we sometimes make mistakes.
Let's look at some of today's community fish, some have been bred here in the UK, never having caught site of what's natural to them, they are bred in all sorts of water chemistry, soft/hard, you name it, that's a fact of profit verses loss and ignorance.
Why would you assume I know nothing about fishkeeping.
Why would you assume my filtration is not able to cope with my setup, you don't know that.
Why are you giving me a lesson in keeping lake Malawi cichlid's, I already know this.
Why are you asking me about my water parameters, I've already told you they are perfect, why ask about my nitrates, these are not the questions I asked, they are merely observations of my own tank, and the maintenance I carry out.
With the clown loaches now at their new home, why do you assume my tank is still overstocked, and if you go by your second and latest formula, 2 inches per gallon, then I am way under stocking limit, unless of course your fish sizes are different to what I'm getting on the pages I visit.
I'm disappointed that I asked a decent question on here relating to stocking more fish in my tank, and your replies fall well short of being helpful.

Ii'm sorry you thought I was condescending, but these points come up time and time again.

Almost all of the fish in UK shops arrive via a handful of wholesalers and importers having either been wild caught or farm bred in the Far East. Very few are UK bred, but in the majority of cases where they are, the breeders have modified their water to suit as many species' either will not breed or eggs will not hartch or fry will not thrive in parameters vastly different to their natural environment.

Many of the most commonly kept species'either cannot be captive bred or are avaiable more cheaply as wild caught...Clown Loach and Cardinal Tetra are two of many examples. Of the easy to breed livebearers, it's far cheaper for shops to buy foreign bred fish via the wholesalers than to source in tbe UK except for sought after top strains which command a higher price.

Fish can often survive in incorrect parameters, but a few generstions captive breeding cannot make up for millions of years of prior evolution. Most will live shorter lives and be more susceptible to disease. Soft water species' kept in hard water accumulate mineral depsits in their internal organs which compromise their function and lead to liver and kidney failure. In most cases if they spawn at all in hard water, the eggs will fail to hatch. Hard water fish kept in soft conditions fare worse, with osmotic stress present constantly. The offspring are generally weak, and the breeding of livebearers in soft water has directly led to Guppies now being weak, sicly, short-lived specimens, far removed from their robust, hardy reputation in the past.

Your parameters cannot be perfect for all tbe fish you have because their needs vary. Nitrate level is important and I asked what it was because of that.

I do not wish to discuss this topic again on this post.
And for reference, although again I believe you are putting your point across as if you was a school teacher talking to a child, my nitrate levels are below 20 Ppm, through good management, all other parameters are well within acceptable limits, including all the readings regarding your previous point.