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finnipper finnipper
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 13:40
Re: Mixed species tanks? #11
Sorry but since when did providing good information and facts ever hurt anyone?

This forum has a major fault in that almost all the questions are answered by "the mods" and any deviation from "mods" advice is put down as being unhelpful. This has happened several times with me and it it becoming a little tedious.
finnipper finnipper
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 13:42
Re: Mixed species tanks? #12
Please delete my account, the button which allows members to leave seems to have been disabled.
Asumel Asumel
  • Just can't stay away
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  • Joined: 10/9/2013 14:10
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 14:14
Re: Mixed species tanks? #13
Quote:

Fishlady wrote:
Tiger Barbs and Angelfish? Neon Tetras and White Cloud Minnows? Please, don't take this the wrong way, but just because things can be done or have been done doesn't mean they necessarily should be done. I'm also well aware that fish that live together in the wild won't necessarily do so in a tank, thank you.

Like I have said before, this data is from the FAO and they are the most common fish sold in the world, you can safely say that at some point they will come into contact. you cant test everything all the time.

Quote:
Can I reiterate that main aim of FK is to promote the welfare of fish. There are a lot of interesting facts that don't necessarily constitute the best advice to give to new fishkeepers in distress. They can be interesting to discuss, but please NOT in threads asking for help with specific issues.

When someone is here asking for help with a specific situation and possibly very distressed we need to give quite generalised advice that will actually help them and stay on topic.

Discussions in these other areas can be interesting and sometimes useful but help and advice threads are not the place to do so.

We (as in the mods) would appreciate it if those wanting to discuss matters such as this would start separate threads for that specific purpose in the Members' Lounge and leave the help threads on topic so the posters concerned and casual passers by with the same problems can get general, helpful advice pertinent to the situation at hand.

I know this IS a separate thread, but this stuff has been spilling over into the advice threads a lot lately and is not helpful.

An area marked General Information surely would be the best area to post information. This information backed up by science is use full for all, not just those in the members area.
I have to say I agree with Finnipper, everything I seem to be saying is being poo pooed by you, even when this is backed up by peer reviewed scientific works. I have given references for all the facts that I have presented to back up my statements, I don't seem to see the same from others?
Eat, SCUBA, Fish.
Fishlady Fishlady
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 15:03
Re: Mixed species tanks? #14
Food and Agriculture are a completely different field of study to ornamental pet fish. Welfare standards in food production are tightly controlled and balanced relative to efficient production and profit. They bear no relation to the keeping of fish as pets for an entire lifetime in a small tank.

Science is no more than a tool just like everything that has a human element involved will be biased by the intentions of those that devise the experiments and by the required outcomes. It is not the be all and end all that some seem to think it is.
Asumel Asumel
  • Just can't stay away
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 15:16
Re: Mixed species tanks? #15
Quote:

Fishlady wrote:
Food and Agriculture are a completely different field of study to ornamental pet fish. Welfare standards in food production are tightly controlled and balanced relative to efficient production and profit. They bear no relation to the keeping of fish as pets for an entire lifetime in a small tank.


Having studied two Bsc's and an Msc from one of the best marine biology university in the world and having worked in a public aquarium, experimental aquarium and kept fish for 16 years on top of this, your statement is unfounded, unthoughtful and entirely wrong. I could provide many examples of the closeness of these things ( and I believe I have done previously)

Quote:
Science is no more than a tool just like everything that has a human element involved will be biased by the intentions of those that devise the experiments and by the required outcomes. It is not the be all and end all that some seem to think it is.

The whole aim of the scientific peer review process is to remove the bias, and it does a very good job of doing this as papers which have been published have to be approved by people in the front of the science and research but not in the location where the research was undertaken. and each experiment is documented so it can be repeated and checked by anyone who wants to. and any affiliations, sponsors and alterior motive have to be declared before the paper is published
Everything in your Tanks and home is based on science and research are you wanting to deny it all?
Eat, SCUBA, Fish.
suey2 suey2
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  • Posted on: 3/11/2013 18:11
Re: Mixed species tanks? #16
Cup of tea anyone? This is an interesting topic and one that's worth discussing, I think the point being made by FL is that it's better to have these discussions in threads of their own (a la this one) rather than risking causing confusion or deviating from a thread where someone has an emergency It's also worth bearing in mind that anyone can read these threads and we have a 'duty of care' if you like to maintain the provision of information that won't risk the casual observer getting the wrong end of the stick

Just to cover a few points while I'm about it, yes the mods do answer a lot of the questions and generally speaking that's because we're the ones who are around and on the forum when people post asking for help. We could just sit back and leave it but we're here because we're interested in helping others so it would be a bit pointless of us not to post Deviation from the mods' advice is fine if it helps the situation in question If it causes confusion, or contradicts what we understand to be correct, then yes it will be challenged.

FK attracts a lot of newcomers to the hobby who tend to need information that they can understand quickly as they are often in a tricky situation already and need 'first aid' information If someone's asking about giving CPR because someone else has stopped breathing they don't necessarily need an in-depth description of the cardio-vascular system, they need a reply that cannot be misinterpreted - a case where accepted knowledge is sufficient to prevent further disaster Once breathing is back on track they may like more information on the biological and physiological processes

Personally I'd suggest a step back and a re-read of the thread, I don't see the need for any account deletion as it's good to have a mix of people who aren't afraid to challenge accepted wisdom and who are willing to learn from others. There are some very knowledgeable and experienced people on here, we should all be willing to learn from each other and be big enough to accept it when things we say or think are challenged With the knowledge we have on this forum we can all do a lot of good for the fishkeeping world, but these things are a team effort, pulling together will do us a lot more good than anything else

If anyone does feel they no longer wish to be a member then please email Admin who will do the honours The alternative is just not to visit for a while of course, I'd suggest this is much better than burning any bridges
It's Not Just A Fish
Tknoxx Tknoxx
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  • Posted on: 10/11/2013 23:27
Re: Mixed species tanks? #17
The original post could be taken to mean that angelfish would be beneficial for their neon tank - when we all know or have heard of people who have had some eaten.

I am all for discussion of research papers but I think FL and the other mods are also right in that some info can confuse new keepers. As they say (quite rightly) that one person giving the advice a new keeper wants to hear will be listened to over the 'right' advice the keeper needs to hear.
TK