(1) 2 »
Boooda Boooda
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 30/4/2013 0:28
  • From Merseyside
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 15
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 0:37
Little schools of cold water fish #1
Hey there,

New to website but not a novice at keeping fish :)

I am just wondering if anyone can recommend a little school of fish I can put in my 65 liter tank, I have 1 Oranda, 1 Black Moore, 1 Weather Louch, 1 little plec and a normal goldfish I think.

The tank looks very bare so wondered if there is any little fish we could put in that wont get harrassed by the other bigger fish?

Any Advice is good, I will put some pics up soon. I need to figure out how to take a decent pic to put up.
nathangoudie nathangoudie
  • Home away from home
  • Home away from home
  • Joined: 14/2/2012 13:40
  • From Vietnam
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 1385
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 4:29
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #2
Hi and welcome Boooda!
I'm sorry to inform your that your tank is way over stocked and your fish are at risk of being stunted by living in the wrong environment

My best advice is not to stock anymore fish and re-home the fish you currently have as soon as possible, it's really urgent to do that if you love your fish and want them to live healthy. Here's an aritcle explains why
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... emid=74&keywords=goldfish

Here's the caresheet for the fish you have, you'll see that that tank is way too unsuitable for them
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... esheet.php?caresheetID=50
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... esheet.php?caresheetID=74
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... esheet.php?caresheetID=72

Also are you aware of the nitrogen cycle which is very essential for keeping any type of aquatic creature?
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles ... hless-cycling-article.htm

To be honest, maybe your experience at fish keeping is a little wrong or old or you must have been advised by fish shops. Keeping fish is about giving our fish the best and healthiest home to thrive in :D
Boooda Boooda
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 30/4/2013 0:28
  • From Merseyside
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 15
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 12:09
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #3
Hi there,

As requested I have read the information you sent, as we have the 4 fish and a plec in the tank which fish are not suitable for the tank?

Regards
Fishlady Fishlady
  • Tropical Moderator
  • Tropical Moderator
  • Joined: 6/7/2010 19:26
  • From Worcestershire
  • Group: Caresheets Moderators FK Supporter Registered Users Image Admin Advisers
  • Posts: 13277
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 12:20
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #4
Hi

You have 4 Fancy Goldfish in there I think? Unfortunately the tank is much too small for them. Fancy Goldfish grow to be very large fish (around 8 inches long excluding tails) and they are also very "dirty" fish who produce a lot of waste. For that reason, they need very large tanks with powerful filtration as indicated in the article Nathan linked to. The tank needs to be at least 3 feet long to allow enough swimming space and then it needs to have a volume of 140 litres for the first fish plus 45 litres extra for each additional fish. For four of them that means you need at least a 275 litre tank.

The Hillstream Loach isn't really suitable for a tank with Goldfish as these are specialised fish who need highly oxygenated, fast flowing water and a group of their own kind. They also need to be kept in tanks that have a large amount of established algae growing on stones/rocks as that's their main food source.Caresheet here gives details.

From your photos the tank looks quite cloudy and that suggests that either the tank isn't cycled or the filtration isn't coping very well. Can you test your levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and post back as I think you may need to take some swift action to prevent the fish being poisoned by toxins from their own waste
Boooda Boooda
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 30/4/2013 0:28
  • From Merseyside
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 15
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 18:33
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #5
Hey Fishlady,

Thanks for your response, I think were going to have to take the goldfish back to the shop or donate them somewhere, I didn't realise that they grew so big, I thought it was only certain types of goldfish that grew big, I dont understand why fish shops willingly sell you them if they know your not putting them in a pond or big tank.

Were do I get all the fancy cold water fish, all the fish shops I have been to just have different types of goldfish.

The Plec we have is a butterfly plec I think, we bought him some Brine Shrimp mix today and seems the other fish like it as well.

The tank was cloudy as the pics on here we took just before we changed the filter after the 1st 2 weeks or so. It is clear now but it still has a yellow/green tinge to it and I am not sure what that is.

I have attached a pic of it we took today.

I don't have anything to test the levels of the water :(

Attach file:



jpg  (544.67 KB)
16280_51800046e458f.jpg 1296X968 px
Fishlady Fishlady
  • Tropical Moderator
  • Tropical Moderator
  • Joined: 6/7/2010 19:26
  • From Worcestershire
  • Group: Caresheets Moderators FK Supporter Registered Users Image Admin Advisers
  • Posts: 13277
  • Posted on: 30/4/2013 20:45
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #6
Quote:

Boooda wrote:
Hey Fishlady,

Thanks for your response, I think were going to have to take the goldfish back to the shop or donate them somewhere, I didn't realise that they grew so big, I thought it was only certain types of goldfish that grew big, I dont understand why fish shops willingly sell you them if they know your not putting them in a pond or big tank.


Taking them back is the best idea if you can't fit in a bigger tank.

Quote:
Were do I get all the fancy cold water fish, all the fish shops I have been to just have different types of goldfish.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say that; can you elaborate? Most shops have some temperate species such as White Cloud Minnow, but the majority of "cold" species need a bigger tank than yours and most do need a heater at least in the colder parts of the year as they won't cope without when it's very cold. If you want colourful, small shoaling fish the best thing would be to return the Goldfish and the Butterfly Plec, add a heater and stock with tropical fish.

Quote:
The Plec we have is a butterfly plec I think, we bought him some Brine Shrimp mix today and seems the other fish like it as well.


The Butterfly Plec is an algae grazer, he needs to be able to graze on algae or be given vegetables if he will eat them. His digestion isn't designed for "meaty" foods. His care needs are the same as the fish I linked to earlier.

Quote:
The tank was cloudy as the pics on here we took just before we changed the filter after the 1st 2 weeks or so. It is clear now but it still has a yellow/green tinge to it and I am not sure what that is.

I have attached a pic of it we took today.


From the picture it looks like the tank faces a window. That may be promoting floating green algae in the water. The other factor is toxins like ammonia and nitrate which can cause green water in the presence of too much light.

Changing the filter is a bad idea as the point of the filtration is to grow bacteria on the sponges that break fish waste down and make it safe. If you change the filter pads you throw away the bacteria and it leaves the fish swimming in toxins as it takes around 6 weeks for them to regrow.

Quote:
I don't have anything to test the levels of the water :(


It's an absolute essential to have a good, liquid based test kit that can test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. There's a strong chance that the water contains toxic levels of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate and without the ability to test you can't tell they are there until they start to make the fish sick.

Did you cycle the tank at all before adding fish? If so, how did you cycle it and how did you know the cycle was complete? If the tank was cycled, it will not have remained so because of changing the filter media. Even if the cycle is established there are more fish in the tank than the filtration and water volume can cope with so get a test kit right away and check those levels. Let us know what they are and we'll advise on what you need to do.

However, given that you say you can't manage a bigger tank I think the safest thing is to return all the fish, add a heater, run a cycle as per this article to make sure the tank is safe for fish and then restock with a shoal of small tropicals.
Boooda Boooda
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 30/4/2013 0:28
  • From Merseyside
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 15
  • Posted on: 1/5/2013 14:12
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #7
In regards to fancy fish, The tank is something I like but we also have 2 kids who want fish in the tank 2, I ideally would like a marine tank with coral and marine fish, but I don't think I would know how to look after 1 of them, and the cost of keeping it running etc as funds are stretched at the moment.

The butterfly plec spends most of his time hiding up by the filter and on occasion he goes on the glass, but he is tiny so I think he is scared.

The tank is kinda facing a window, it backs onto the wall were the window is, so it is getting a bit of light. The Filter wasn't flowing clean water out of it, was a tinge brown so that's why I emptied it? should I not be doing that?

Before i added the fish i left the tank filled with water and the stones and ornaments in for 24 hours with the filter and bubbles running. That's what the fish shop said to do. I also added tap safe (chemical) that clears the water of impurities.

I do have the equipment to make it a tropical tank but its the confidence to doing it. I will be investing in a larger tank but it wont be for a while. So i will have to return the fish and start again.

I will be buying 1 of the test kits and will post the details asap and we can go from there.

Thanks a lot for your help
nathangoudie nathangoudie
  • Home away from home
  • Home away from home
  • Joined: 14/2/2012 13:40
  • From Vietnam
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 1385
  • Posted on: 1/5/2013 14:46
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #8
Just get a heater then return all the fish you currently have then you're ready to start a tropical set up! 60l will give you variety of choices for tropical fish (mostly tetras).

As soon as you have your water readings, we'll give you advises which fish is the best to keep

By the way tank position should be kept away from sunlight, sunlight has many factors that cause algae to blossom and makes the tank looks nasty.

The reason not to change filter media is the bacteria for nitrogen cycle. The link I posted above has all the information about it.
DaveGodfrey DaveGodfrey
  • Temperate Adviser
  • Temperate Adviser
  • Joined: 10/5/2010 0:02
  • From London
  • Group: Registered Users Deep End Advisers
  • Posts: 528
  • Posted on: 9/5/2013 12:15
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #9
The Weather Loach will also need to go back. These fish get to 10" or so and over an inch across. They shouldn't be kept in anything under 4' long, or in groups of less than 3 (and ideally more).

My advice would be to return all the fish, buy yourself a liquid test kit (the API Freshwater Master Kit, or the utrafin/Tetra equivalent are the ones most people use), a bottle of ammonia and start again with a fishless cycle.

Heaters for a 65L tank are not expensive and will give you a wide range of fish suitable for a tank the size you have. Exactly which fish will thrive will depend on how acidic/alkaline and hard/sot your water is (guppies love the liquid rock you get in London and the South East, whereas tetras like soft acidic water more usually found in Scotland). Hillstream Loaches would make good tankmates for WCMMs (although I'd be looking at putting them in a tank with an external filter just to keep the flow up for them. They shouldn't be put in immature tanks either, as they need a good supply of algae to graze on (a production line of pet rocks is a good idea).

Having said that there are a few species that would be suitable- White Cloud Mountain Minnows are pretty much ubiquitous and absolutely lovely fish. In terms of stocking level a good rule of thumb for small shoaling fish is 1cm of adult fish for every 2 litres of water volume, so a 65L tank would hold about 8-10 WCMMs (they get to 4cm each).
Loaches, Barbs, Minnows & Shrimp! Oh My!
Boooda Boooda
  • Just popping in
  • Just popping in
  • Joined: 30/4/2013 0:28
  • From Merseyside
  • Group: Registered Users Basic Membership
  • Posts: 15
  • Posted on: 21/5/2013 14:52
Re: Little schools of cold water fish #10
Right, I have a 6in1 Test kit from pets at home;

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/6-in-1 ... ps-25-pack-by-tetra-16292

I will post a pic of the strip here when im done.