etna89 etna89
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  • Posted on: 7/4/2013 14:49
blackmoor please help us urgent #1
THIS POST MIGHT BE LONG AND STRANGE BUT BARE WITH ME IM JUST TRYING TO GIVE AS MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE TO GET HELP
HES NOT DOING WELL

hi i have a male blackmoor hes my only fish

i brought him 3 years ago as a baby and had no problems untill around a month or two ago

i brought lil fishey the day of my moms funeral so he has real meaning to me.

at the time i thought the pet shop gave me all the info i needed on my fish and how to keep him.. i was wrong turns out i have no clue and now im killing him horribly...

i now know his tank is way way to small i have slightly upgraded by 4L to a 21L tank but this is all i can afford untill the middle of may 2013 when i will buy him what he actually needs.. i was completly foolish and thought my fish would live forever in this crap 17L i honestly did not know the pet man just done me over and had no concern what i would be doing to this fish he was selling me

he had been fine for three years in his 17L tank i cleaned him once a week 50% and fed him 2 tetra pellets daily. he was always fine and i have had no issues with him or his health untill the last month or two..

one night he was upside down at the top of the tank i thought i was doing right thing but i done the wrong thing now my tank and fish are all mesed up

so on that night i thought i was doing good by transfering him to another place while i completly cleaned out his tank and put all new water in.. unfortunatly i did not know about the cycling process and the bacteria...so i put him back in his 17L tank with all fresh water

to begin with i fed him some peas and for a day or two he was ok then he went upside down again and it was awfull so bad i could not satand to watch i cleaned him out again in the bad way not knowing then he recovered agin a few days later he was ill again he does not go upside down no more he just sits at the bottom of the tank..

so i took some water to a pet store and got it tested it showed low signs of amonia and nitrate..they then informed me on what was wrong and the size of my tank was to small to start with so that day i got him a slightly larger tank it was better than nothing ok if i could of got him the big one then i would but i just cant and she was very nice and explained alot to me she spent 2 hours talking to me

so she said to put him in the new tank with some of his old water and some fresh water to fill the tank abit but not all the way on the first day do it gradually

so this is what i have been doing the last 3 weeks i kept a diary my issues are amonia and my fish just sitting at the bottom of the tank

i know some might just say get a bigger tank but i just can not do that right now so i need help and advise on how to best mantain my fish and tank for the next month or so so he will not suffer i know he is and its my fault and im now paying for it it cuts me up inside i just need to mantain him untill i can get a bigger tank and then hopefully he will be happier i just cant let him die before that happens hes hangin in there but i dont know how long he will last it must be hard and one day he might give up just need help in maintaing whats going on untilll i can do better

so at the mo hes in a 21L tank no other fish and a filter running that was supplied with tank

he has no light or heater and the water is room temp

i always treat water with tap safe and allow it to stand for a day before putting in with the fish so its the same temp and the chemicals are out of the wayer

i use one of them suck gravel syphon cleaners i wipe the inside of the tank and wash the filter sponge in the dirty tank water

it has one plant in there a fresh one not plastic

he has now been in the 21L tank with the new filter running for about 4 weeks

i feed him blood worms an tetra pellets

like i said i kept a diary the last 3 weeks i will write it so u know what i have done

I NEED ADVISE ON HOW TO GET RID OF AMONIA AND HOW TO IMPROVE FISH HEALTH AND BEHAVIOUR UNTILL I GET A BIGGER TANK

I HAVE DONE FREQUENT WATER CHANGES AND HAD THE WATER TESTED 3 DIFFERENT TIMES AND THEY ALWAYS SHOW THE SAME READING IT SAYS AMONIA AND NITRATE LOW READING

mon
put in new tank with old water and clean water tank was larger so filled to like 70% and gradually to the top over next few days i fed no food he sat at the bottom all day
tue
took old water out put newin no food and he sat at bottom all day
wed
25% water change half a pea and he sat at bottom all day
thur
gave him some blood worm jus a lil i felt sorry for him
fri
25%water change sat at bottom most of day and fed half pea
sat
25%water change no food
sun
water change 25% few bloodworm
mon
25% water change
tue
25%water change few blood worms
wed
25% water change
thur
i had the water tested again it showed the same low reading of amonia and nitrate the bad ones was advised to do a large 60% water change and then leave it alone for a few days
fri
few bloodworms
sat
nothing done or fed
sun
nothing done or fed
mon
i noticed after not doing the ater for a few days the fish started to look even more ill he was now at the bottom of the tank almost on his side with a sort of arch shape through his body so i done the water 50% water change and i fed his two tetra pellets which i sunk to the bottom
he seamed to improve and swam aroung and then still sat at the bottom but not on his side arched.. just kinda sitting the floating
tues
30%water change no food
wed
i did nothing nor fed no food
thur
i did nothing and he had no food he has no food cuz i dont feed him not because he dont eat if i feed him he propa eats
fri
50%water change a few blood worms
sat
nothing with water and no food
sun
nothing as of yet

so rite now he sits at the bottom of the tank most of the day he does get up and swim around when i clean the atnk or feed him then he can swim and he to me seams to get about ok but then after a while he will just sit at the bottom again untill i next tap the tank or disturb him sometimes i catch him swimming freely when i just walk in the kitchen bust the most time i see him hes at the bottom sitting ther

he has not white marks cuts or grazes nor have i seen any fin clampi never seen it before so i dont realy now what it is but they seam ok to me no starange marks on him he breathes ok and is not gaspy

please help me and advise me on how to mantain him so he dont suffer to much untill i get a new tank
scatty scatty
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  • Posted on: 7/4/2013 15:31
Re: blackmoor please help us urgent #2
Hi etna looks like you, like 100% of newby fishkeepers have been given c**p advice im afraid but help is on its way. As you already know the tank is way too small for your little guy and i know you won't be able to sort out a new tank straight away so if you do have just a few quid to spare at the mo a large food safe storage box will do in an emergency. Staples do an 80 litre one which will be better than the 21 litres hes in at the mo. This will help dilute the ammonia and nitrites down with a larger water volume but it doesnt mean you'll get out of the water changes every day as it takes much longer to cycle a tank with the fish in. A bottle of seachem prime would be a good idea too as this will help lock the ammonia and detoxify the nitrites.
The day you stop caring is the day you should stop keeping any pet whether fur or fins!
Goldy Goldy
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  • Posted on: 7/4/2013 16:11
Re: blackmoor please help us urgent #3
Hi just got your message Sorry to hear you are having to go through this after your loss hopefully it is not too late and we can save your Blackmoor Scatty has given you excellent advice and you can buy Seachem prime on-line, the food grade boxes may not look as nice as a glass tank, but they cheaper and ideal as a hospital or quarantine tank until you can afford a bigger glass one and will be a lot better for the time being

something like this

http://www.homebargains.co.uk/product ... storage-box-with-lid.aspx

Do you know any one that has a matured tank that you may be able to get some filter media from to transfer into your filter in the mean time please read and follow the advice taken from the link below and good luck

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... php?topic_id=559&forum=14


How to Save the Day (and the Fish) with an Un-Cycled Tank

OK, so you didn't do Fishless Cycling or you did scrub out your matured tank and now your fish are dying and nothings breaking down that ammonia and nitrite. What do you do now?

Here's what I do to give my fish the best chance:
1. Immediately do a 10-15% water change with dechlorinated water and continue to do this at least once daily until your tank is cycling (i.e. ammonia and nitrite are at zero).

2. Test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite until the values are holding at zero for several days running. If levels are high, do an immediate, extra water change.

3. If at all possible, get some matured filter media and/or gravel from a matured tank and put it in your tank, suspended in an old stocking. This will hopefully impregnate your new tank with the beneficial bacteria. One lady successfully used floss from a relative's fish pond to colonise her new tank! (you have to be careful that what you use is clean and free from pathogens, of course).

4. Keep good aeration in the tank both to help the fish a little and to oxygenate those beneficial bacteria.

5. Avoid using medications, if at all possible, as many medications kill off beneficial bacteria. Your fish may well get ick, fungus or other infections due to the stress of the ammonia and nitrite but the priority is to get that water quality as good as possible.

6. If you have delicate fish in the tank, such as plecos, corys or other bottom dwellers, tetras, pencil fish etc. try to re-home them temporarily, such as asking the Local Fish Shop to look after them until your tank is cycled (after all, chances are that they got you in this mess in the first place).

7. Live plants can directly use ammonia, so if you can, put some cheap aquatic plants in the tank, such as elodea or giant vallis.

8. Don't feed your fish at all if your ammonia readings are high, and only feed bare minimum rations every other day, until the tank cycles. This will cut down on the ammonia the fish produce. Since fish are cold blooded creatures and don't need the calories of a mammal they can go several days without food anyway, and the occasional fast is good for them. Your fish may not be very hungry anyway so do be careful not to feed more than the fish can eat and clean up uneaten food immediately, before it rots and produces even more ammonia.

9. Only clean the gravel superficially, of obvious dirt and uneaten food. You want the bacteria to colonise it and actually start to grow. Also, don't swap out your filter at this point - if it gets blocked, just clean it enough to unblock it, in used tank water.
etna89 etna89
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  • Posted on: 8/4/2013 10:28
Re: blackmoor please help us urgent #4
hi scatty and goldy i thank you both so much for your help you have given me...its priceless to me and might just save lil fishey thank god now i feel like there is hope for him

if you can would you be able to advise me on how to transfer him to the stoeage box?

so first i shall get the box...

shall i fill the box with water then add the tap safe then add the prime.
.should i leave this water to stand for a day or two to let the chemicals work and the water get to room temp...
should i add the 21L of water that he is in but then the water he is in at the mo it has been treated with tap safe but not prime

do i need a filter for the 80L box i have my filter that i use now but it is the one that was supplied with the 21L tank so i doubt it is very powerfull...can i use the old one..do i need a new one...or if i will be water changing daily to help the cycle does he still need the filter in it

should i put the gravel from my tank in there or add new gravel or ad some old and new

i have a live plant can i put this in there how many plants do you suggest to help the problem

on transfering the fish shoild the box be to full with water or should i do it like 60% the gradually fill to top over a few days with fish in it

ok so once he is in there and the box is full of water with him in it what is the plan then..??
should i be doing daily water changes if so how much water should i remove daily and how long shall i do this for..is it ok to remove the water with the syphon gravel sucker or just with a jug?


so at the mo to treat tap water i use tap safe if there a better product u could recomend as i reckon with 80L AND daily water changes im going to get through loads an loads

also i no my fish was sold to me to live in cold tap water which he does but when i touch the water in the tank its like freezing water not frooze just very cold is this ok..? i can not get a heater with this box just yet but if it is something that would make his life better in the new tank it is somthing i will do..??

last it might seam strange but do you no of any objects that i could put in the tank from around the house just to make it a bit more fun in there for him to occupy his mind a bit.. cant realy afford new toys just yet he has a few things at the mo but in this big box it will seam empty....

i know i have alot of questions and to you all they must seam stupid and like cruelty but im making the best for him since i have realised

if you can help me with all of this it would be actually life saving for him for real i am trying to give him a chance

i dont regret getting him i just regret getting him with no understanding..

there should be some kind of laws to stop people doing this petitions or something people have told me to flush him..???? like really you will go to hell for that its so sad now that i think what i myself have done and what millions of other fish must go through..5 sec memory..?? watever my fish knows me knows his routines and everything fish should not be so easy to buy

if you do help me i thank you so very much :)

COME ON FISHEY WERE GONNA DO IT..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Goldy Goldy
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  • Posted on: 8/4/2013 14:34
Re: blackmoor please help us urgent #5
When you get the storage box give it a good rinse and fill it as you would a fish tank, you don't need to fill it right up to the top as it may be quite deep. Do you have any way of measuring the water into the storage box say a large jug or bucket with the volume on it "something like this " http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ceEgMOcxL._AA1500_.jpg
because it will let you know exactly how much water you have in the box which will be helpful when adding the prime
Also you wont need to use the tap safe with the Seachem prime as this is a water conditioner/dechlorinator the same as the tap safe but it helps detoxify the Ammonia
You can leave the water to stand over night in the box to bring it to the same temperature as the tanks, 24 hours should be long enough, either that or you can bring the water up to the same temperature by adding boiled water from your kettle, and yes use the 21 litre tanks water along with the gravel and filter as this should be building up good bacteria.
just treat the storage box as you would a fish tank so yes it it will need a filter.
Can I ask what filter came with the 21 litre, also do you still have the old tank because you can use this to put your moor in while transferring the 21 litre's contents, and to adjust his water before transferring him in the box, you can do this by removing a little of his tank water and replacing it a bit at a time with some out of the storage box until he has been acclimatised, then you can safely transfer him over, along with the water he is in do you also have the filter that came with the smaller tank because you can use this one too, 2 filters will be better than one until you can get a bigger filter for the box and yes transfer the plants too, because live plants are ideal they will use up ammonia
Fancy goldfish like your moor prefer their water slightly warmer than their single tail cousins around 22c so a heater is advisable especially in the colder months, they are also prone to suffer with balance problems and cold water will aggravate this

As for water changes follow the information posted above

And for toys you have to be careful when using stuff from around the house, they need to be fish safe as in non toxic. New/unused ceramic plant pots look nice and give the fish somewhere to shelter, also adding more live plants will make him feel a lot safer and give him something to snack on just soak them over night in some dechorinated water before adding them to the tub "you can do this while waiting for the water to warm to room temperature in the tub" allowing room at the front of the tub for him to be able to swim up and down

Please don't blame yourself for all this we have all been there sadly, tanks not big enough and not knowing the importance of the nitrogen cycle we use to get told oh you only need a filter for tropical fish so much has changed over the years thankfully for the better, but now we have the internet we can research for ourselves and not listen to rubbish advice given by a lot of fish shops if I could wave a magic wand all bowls and small tanks would be banned and I would make it law that the correct written information has to be given to new fishkeeper's before they are allowed to buy fish
Goldy Goldy
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  • Posted on: 8/4/2013 16:06
Re: blackmoor please help us urgent #6
is this the same as your tank by any chance

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