Hi,

My oranda is really ill, and I was wondering if there was anything else I could do?

He's (estimated, based on when signs of breeding spots appeared) around four years old now.

Due to poor conditions in his early life (partly my fault for not knowing the right tank size when I first got him, but he'd been kept in a tiny tank before that too until 10 months old - I put him into a proper tank (180l) when he was about 16 months old) he's smaller than he should be. About six inches in total length, half of it being his tail.

In comparison to photos of orandas online, I'd say his tail is disproportionately long, and his eyes seem too large for his size.

Perhaps because of this (stunting?) he's always been a bit problematic as far as buoyancy is concerned. Food has been difficult, because every single sinking pellet I've tried (well soaked in advance - Hikari, Love Fish, Tetra Gold, etc) makes him extremely buoyant, and often left him upside down at the top of the tank. So for most of his life, his diet has been frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp, daphnia and fresh greens (he loves romaine lettuce).

Last Sunday he was laid on the bottom upside down, but when I knelt down and told him to right himself he did (not that he understands English... probably), and seemed perfectly fine, and started swimming around healthily.

On Monday he had his breakfast as normal and looked 100% himself, but an hour later he was laid on the bottom upside down again. This time he wouldn't move when I spoke to him, or when I lifted the tank lid. He occasionally got up, had a brief swim but sank quickly back to the bottom, upside down or on his side.

Did a 50% water change and dosed him with Esha 2000, and by 10pm he was the right way up, but still parked on the bottom doing very little. Since then, he's remained much the same, but he's even less responsive to being talked to. He's refused all types of food.

Completed the Esha dose on Wednesday.

I couldn't say for sure but I think I see a sign of pineconing, but not 100% sure because if it's there, it's very slight.

He's done a few normal, food-coloured poos. I found a long, human hair-like white stringy thing (best way I can describe it) on Tuesday. Not sure what it was.

He sometimes looks like he's hiccuping, mostly when someone talks to him - as if he's trying to do something but can't.

He barely moves (hasn't for 4 hours when I'm writing this), but when he does it's only a brief, hurried swim up followed by a sink back down.

His eyes swivel around as they always have, and his dorsal fin occasionally goes from down to up.

180l tank (to himself, his tank mate passed away a year ago)
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 25

Does anyone have any advice/suggestions of anything else I can try? I'll try absolutely anything - he's like a family member, and I love him as much as any dog/cat owner has ever loved their pet. Other fishkeepers will probably understand that.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear he's so unwell. It seems like you're doing all the right things so am not sure what to suggest. Possibly a couple of days without food, followed by a meal of squished peas might help if he has a bit of a blockage.

Raising the water temperature a little can help with poor digestion in fancies, depending on where the thermostat is set at the moment.

Alternatively adding Epsom salts may help too, but as we aren't sure it's constipation that may be too strong a treatment for him. If you want to try that it's dosed at 1 level teaspoon per 4 gallons, so you'd need 9 teaspoons in your tank, diluted first in some water. It should take effect within 3 days, then you'll need to do a series of partial water changes to gradually dilute the water back to normal.

Thanks for the reply!

Fairly sure it's not constipation, as he was pooing as normal after feeding on Monday - that was the last time he ate anything, and normally when he's blocked up he floats but is otherwise perfectly well. This time he's at the bottom and is awfully lethargic.

Condition update: no change. Still won't eat, and is behaving exactly the same way :(

Condition update:

No change, except that I'm more certain now that he has some degree of 'dropsy-like' pineconing on his body. So that's become more pronounced. Never a good sign

He ate a few little bits of lettuce yesterday when I held it infront of his face and he just moved his mouth to eat it (when healthy he always has his first mouthful of lettuce from my hand, he's become very particular about doing it that way) but he wouldn't even move a centimetre to pick any up off the gravel.

But that tiny bit aside (really was a tiny amount) he hasn't eaten since Monday morning, so almost a week.

Oh dear, I hope he's picked up a little now Sometimes it's just a case of poor design and construction with fancies, he might just be suffering the effects of being a fancy goldfish Unfortunately with their squished up innards they can be prone to things that creep up on them as they age and grow. Pineconing is usually a result of internal organs starting to struggle, there can be various causes of this but sometimes something as unavoidable as body shape can cause it.

The water sounds ok, so it might be worth doing another course of ESHA, you can dose it longer than it says, and see if that makes any difference

Thanks for the reply!

Managed to hand-feed him a few bloodworms last night, but he still won't budge an inch to try to pick them up out of the water or from the gravel very unlike him.

The only swimming he's doing is pretty much dragging himself along the bottom, with occasional 2-3 second attempts to swim upwards. In the last four hours he's covered about 2 feet along the bottom.

Did him a 40% water change (he has one every Monday, so thought I should stick to that) and re-dosed with Esha, so hopefully he'll start perking up a little and find a way to overcome whatever is ailing him.

He's a tough little thing, despite the fancy tail

If he's eating that's a good thing, if he stops then that's something to be concerned about My special needs fellas stuff their faces on a daily basis but can't swim for toffee! See how he goes with the ESHA, hopefully he'll pick up but if he can't swim too well/at all it's not necessarily the end of the world for him, see how he goes

Today's update...

Hasn't moved more than a few inches since 7am, just parked on the gravel watching the world go by. Still pineconed but except for that he looks normal externally.

Hopefully he'll keep eating - I have to pretty much push it into his mouth to get him to have it (fortunately I can reach down through the water to where he is) but suppose as long as he's having something he'll be able to keep his strength up.

Today's (yesterday's) update...

No real changes. He'll eat, but only if I touch the food to his mouth so all he has to do is open it. Won't move towards it if it's just put in the water.

Hasn't had a proper swim for a few days, just short (few inch) trips dragging his tummy.

Balance still off, tipped himself yesterday and ended up parked on his side. Didn't bother trying to right himself for a while.

Still pineconed quite a bit, doesn't seem to be getting better or worse.

Been ill 10 days now, hope he sorts himself out soon... just wish I could get him out and give him a hug, but I don't think he'd appreciate it

Not getting worse is worth remarking on ... Fx for him ...