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Jafooli Jafooli
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  • Posted on: 4/6/2011 11:52
Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #1
Hi, Hope I posted this in the correct place...

Size of pond = 430 Gallons.

What filter do you use? Oasis 18000 filter with a hozelock aquaforce 6000.

How long has the pond been set up? 5 years +

What water tests have you done and what are the readings?
Ammonia Level = 0.25mg/l ammonia use to be 1.5 mg/l
Nitrite Level = 0.3mg/l nitrite use to be 0.8 mg/l

I got my results with Tetra test kits.

When was the last water change and how much did you change?
Yesterday, around 10-15%

A list of all the inhabitants?
50 + Goldfish
3 Shubunkins (new)
2 Baby Koi (new)
Newts
Frogs
Toads
Snails (new)

When did you last add fish, plants, ornaments or other tank equipment? Yesterday I added some water soliders.

Have you added any medication? Eradick - Anti-Parasite & Fungus

Can you post a photo?

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(Pond)

The more you can tell us the more we can help:

The last month, my fish have been flashing, darting, rubbing, and sometimes jumping out the water. I am not sure whats caused the problems, I have made quite alot of changes to my pond over the last month or so. Including buying a brand new filter and pump, some new fish, and some new plants all for the summer.

I started to notice fish flashing on the new pump then on the sides of the pond and pump hose. It become more frequent then I started to worry. I was told to test the pond ammonia and nitrite. Which when I tested was both very high. The ammonia was staying at 1.5 mg/l and nitrite at 0.8 mg/l... I guessed that the problem must of been the new filter, as its not matured as its new so I purchased some ammonia remover. Which for the last week or two has kept it down to 0.25 maybe less and nitrite is lower at 0.3.

The problems started to stop. No flashing, darting etc. But at feeding time. All the problems seem to come rushing back. With the fish flashing, jumping out the water. Darting, and the fins on there back shaking. I thought maybe its a ammonia spike? I ain't to good with all this so would really appreciate some help. A few of the goldfish have now got some strange white patches on them.

I have attached some pictures if it helps. But even the healthy looking fish are flashing, darting. I also know my pond is way overstocked with fish, we use to have many more 100+ and all the fish use to be fine strangely for years, also that's the reason I bought a new filter and pump. We also gave away as much goldfish as we could to friends and family which was around 40 odd. But its a bit hard to try give away more now as this problem is about.

Hopefully someone can solve my problem here :)

Many thanks in advance.

Dan
suey2 suey2
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #2
Hi Dan - welcome to FK First thought would be poor water quality causing them to be irritated, your test results bear this out along with the fact that they've been better as ammonia etc. has been reduced. Feeding time could be causing an ammonia spike, plus of course they are greedy pigs and will be pushing and shoving to get the food!

What are the 'water soliders' you've added?

It's possible the meds are also irritating them, if they don't have any diagnosable problems it's best not to add meds if you are not quite sure what you are dealing with.

You do have a lot of fish for the volume of water, when you took out the old filter etc. did you keep any of the old media or did you replace the whole lot?

It's possible the new fish have brought something with them - did you quarantine them before adding them?

Can you see any fluff or spots or anything on them? Any red streaks in fins/tails?

I'm no expert on pond equipment so I'll move your thread to the pond section for further advice on that side of things
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steve. steve.
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  • Posted on: 5/6/2011 15:32
Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #3
My goldfish have been acting slightly weird too then yesterday I was going to pull some weed out of the pond and noticed it was covered in fish eggs.

I wonder if yours are just spawning ?

I was walking around a fishing lake yesterday with my son when four 6-10lb carp swam up onto floating plants, they thrashed about like mad soaking me and my son then swam off back into the lake.

I have seen quite a few fish going a bit mad while spawning. I am probably wrong but thats just my thoughts :D
Jafooli Jafooli
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #4
Hey thanks for the reply suey2.

I think the water soliders I added are known as Stratiotes. I just purchased them to add some more plants to the pond, the problem was happening way before they was introduced. But I had added many other plants which could have brought something to the pond this was at the same time I bought some new fish.

Interesting to know that the medication could be irritating them, but the problem has been happening before then also, and days after the medication had finished.

There is to many fish I know, but its hard to even ask someone to take some from me at the moment as the problem they have is unknown, The reason could be the amount of fish but I don't understand why as I got rid of around 40 fish and before then everything was fine but like I say this was with the old filter, its my mums pond technically and for the 5 years we have had the pond, they have never had a problem.

The new filter is 100x better than our old filter which was not good to be honest. Its now turning the pond volume over with in an hour. I looked in the filter yesterday to see how much muck there was, to see lots of mini worms, I'm guessing this is the friendly bacteria? Also to answer your question. I replaced the new filter with the old one, and purchased some blagdon bio start, so its all started fresh.

We did not quarantine the new fish, not to smart on all of this.

I have seen red streaks I believe on many of the red goldfish. I cant see no fluff but a lot have white dots but when I look close its where there scales are missing.

(To add when I cleaned the pump out yesterday, it was switched of for around 5 minutes, when I switched it back on, the fish didn't look happy, they was darting about like crazy, they soon settled down again)

Is there any chance all of this darting and flashing could be to do with the PH level ? as I have not yet tested the PH. Or maybe the ammonia is still to high at 0.25mg/l?

To answer Steve, they have been spawning but not for a few days now.

Thanks.

Dan
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  • Posted on: 5/6/2011 21:40
Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #5
Hi, im no expert on ponds but the same water issies apply.

When adding a new filter its alway advised to either run the new filter along side the old filter for 6 weeks or so to allow the bacteria to grow, or fill the new filter with the old filter media so it runs with the same bacteria collony but more efficiently.

To clean your filter always flush it out in old pond water, squishing the media out to clean off the gunk but retain the bacteria, dont hang around during this process to stave off die off of bacteria.

Havent a clue what the tiny worms are but they are not bacteria, we may have a pondy person on later who may be able to offer identification of things wild and wonderful which could be living in your filter.

Ammonia and NitrIte should always be 0, anything else will effect your fish so you will need to complete a few more water changes, again a pondy person will have more of an idea how to do this as ponds are different to tanks so i wouldnt want to steer you wrong on that one.

NitrAte should be kept below 40 but lower if possible.

The red streaks your seeing in your fish is ammonia/nitrite poisoning, "google" for the cause and effects.

I would put money on it being down to your water quality and the number of fish you have in there. The filter may be new and filtering the whole pond but it wont be able to cope with the bio load/waste created by all those fish who poo constantly, uneaten food will also add to the ammonia in the water so cut down on food until you can bring your water up to speed.
Jafooli Jafooli
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  • Posted on: 5/6/2011 22:10
Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #6
Hey Jellybean

Thanks for your answer.

Interesting to know that the hundreds of tiny worms are not the friendly bacteria, its kind of worrying now you mentioned that. There are thousands. I only noticed them yesterday on the filter sponges so I first thought maybe the filter is maturing nice and good.

I got the filter on the 26th of April so its around 6 weeks now.

I guess my Ammonia at 0.25mg/l could still be irritating them then, and the Nitrite at 0.3mg/l.

I have not tested Nitrate yet as I was told its importance is not as much as the Ammonia and Nitrite.

Good to know what the red streaks are :) Getting somewhere now lol.

Water changes never seem to help my Ammonia or Nitrite, in the end I had to buy Interpet Blagdon Pond Ammonia Remover just to get it down from 1.5mg/l. Which it has stayed down since. Also the Nitrite went down to. It did say on the product that if signs of Ammonia are left, another dose may be needed. I could always buy another bottle if this will help.

Im really worried about them worms now =\

Thanks again.
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #7
I wouldn't worry about the worms, they are probably some sort of fly larvae and the fish will eat them
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Jellybean Jellybean
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #8
Hi,

Water changes using a good dechlorinator to remove chlorine, chloromines along with all heavy metals will help dilute the ammonia and nitrite (very important) and thin out the nitrate (which in high consentrations can be very harmful so that needs to be tested for too), it will also make your fish feel a whole lot better.

Your filter being new will be struggling to cycle which is why your showing raised levels, it has also put a strain on your fish which could lead to alsorts of ailments due to reduced immune systems so the water changes are important.

If you've googled the effects of ammonia and nitrite you will see why its vital to keep the ammonia and nitrite at 0.

Can you get a pic of the worms? nature has some weird and wonderful stages so and ID would be good.
Jafooli Jafooli
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #9
I hope they are a larvae or something, I can maybe try take a picture tomorrow. It will be hard as they are really really tiny.

I have some Blagdon Fresh Start Pond Treatment left so I can do some more water changes still.

I think I will also buy some more Ammonia Remover, just to take it down to zero.

With the Ammonia poisoning, a lot of sites mention symptoms but the only one I can see is the red streaks which is on a few goldfish. But it says fish with the poisoning could lay at bottom of pond, gasp for breath, loss appetite, which there not doing.

The pictures I attached at the top, the fish with the white patches, is that normal? Because out of all the fish he looks the most poorly and he use to be orange. But he isn't getting worse or better now, and a few other fish are getting the same thing.
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Re: Goldfish Flashing, Darting, Rubbing. Help Please. Pics Inc. #10
Quote:

Jafooli wrote:
I have some Blagdon Fresh Start Pond Treatment left so I can do some more water changes still.


Does it remove chloromines too? both chlorine and chloromines can kill your filter bacteria so its important to remove both.

Quote:

The pictures I attached at the top, the fish with the white patches, is that normal? Because out of all the fish he looks the most poorly and he use to be orange. But he isn't getting worse or better now, and a few other fish are getting the same thing.


What do the white patches look like? does it look fluffy or extra slimy? fish can loose colour, one of mine changed from orange to pure white.