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electrogear electrogear
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 20:42
Re: Poorly Chromis #11
Howard, I appreciate your response, but taking into account my tank readings, which have constantly been zero since around week 4, how do you explain the deaths of my fish as a consequence of my stocking too fast? Also, I have already explained that two out of the three fish that died were already ill (swimming sideways/rapid breathing/laying down) before even adding them to my system.

I know you're right about adding fish too fast, I think it is something I was doing a bit quick, but I still think 1 per month is overkill. Granted I don't have much experience, but a friend of mine who owns about 15 tanks gave me advice to add one per week, with regular testing and provided readings are still zero 1 week after new fish are introduced. I can see why you would recommend 1 fish per month to a beginner, because they need to get to grips with the cycle etc.
Howard Howard
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 21:05
Re: Poorly Chromis #12
Ok , carry on the way you are.

Just trying to help. The old-timers on UR stock at the same rate ( one a month ).

Not having seen your setup , the way you do things , and having unfortunately being off line myself for a bit , i can't comment on why it has happened ... a mini spike maybe killing off a weak fish , i just don't know.

Adding sick fish to your system is a recipe for disaster ( why were they ever added in the first place ? )

Not much more to say on this matter really , other than you are stocking too fast .

I would question how the general advice on all forums , not just this one is one a month , and yet one person ( your mate ) says otherwise and you follow that ? I would suggest that it is because it is what you want to hear.

You need to revise the way you are doing things in order to prevent more deaths.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Good luck. Over and out.
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electrogear electrogear
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 21:45
Re: Poorly Chromis #13
Quote:

Howard wrote:
Ok , carry on the way you are.


I don't think you needed to get in a tiff with me about it, I was only questioning why, having zero readings, you still said the fish will have died due to stocking too quickly, I think it was a fair question.

Quote:

Howard wrote:
Adding sick fish to your system is a recipe for disaster ( why were they ever added in the first place ? )


As I've already explained, the first sick fish was the first in my system. I added it as I don't have a QT tank... I wanted to try and revive the fish and taking it back to the LFS would only have made it worse. I know I should have QT them, and if it was possible I would have, I wasn't just being stupid, as you seem to think.

Quote:

Howard wrote:

Not much more to say on this matter really , other than you are stocking too fast .

I would question how the general advice on all forums , not just this one is one a month , and yet one person ( your mate ) says otherwise and you follow that ? I would suggest that it is because it is what you want to hear.


I've seen 2 fish/2 weeks suggested on UR, and lots of other places. I'm not someone who does things on a whim, and, I don't listen only to what I want to hear (as you suggest). I do a lot of reading and there are that many contrasting opinions it's difficult to know which sources to trust. I've also seen 1 fish/month recommended, and I think the reason for this is to cover any situation. Big fish like tangs etc are going to place a lot more bioload on the tank than a little chromis or goby like the fish I have added. All I'm saying is that if you are comfortable with the nitrogen cycle, IMO I don't think you need to follow the 1 fish per month rule in all situations (although with larger fish, I would agree).

I think discussion is the only way to assertain the right information, and that is the only reason I was questioning it, so I'm sorry if it came across as an argument rather than a question.

I do trust my friend's advice as he's very up to date on fishkeeping, he breeds fish and sells to shops, sells corals online, and has his own forums, but I don't rely on him solely for advice, otherwise I wouldn't be posting on here. I never asked for any opinions on the cycle, that has never been an issue. With all respect, I know you have more knowledge and experience, but I don't like it when people tell me my fish are dying because of poor water quality, when I know my water quality is fine. I know I'm new to marines, and I may be I'm making some mistakes, I don't doubt that, I have taken your comments on board.

Thanks
robinscp robinscp
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 21:55
Re: Poorly Chromis #14
Quote:


The old-timers on UR stock at the same rate ( one a month ).


Says it all really.

A good reason to carry on as you are Mike.
Freakyshrimp Freakyshrimp
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 22:18
Re: Poorly Chromis #15
Hi electrogear, when you got the 3 Chromis did the LFS bag them up seperately or all in the same bag. I ask this because they are notorious for picking each other off until just the strongest remains. They look like butter wouldn't melt with the lights on but come darkness another story altogether. They could have picked on the weakest in the 50minute journey, explaining the first death. Not sure what to say about the B/Cardinals but I don't think I would be using the same LFS again if the fish were on their last legs after a relatively short journey.
[url=http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/uploads/photos/1472.jpg]Original Image[/ur
electrogear electrogear
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  • Posted on: 18/1/2010 22:39
Re: Poorly Chromis #16
They bagged them all together. This is something I wondered about too, and it would correlate because stupidly, the LFS put the Banggais in the same bag too. Unforunately I didn't pick them up, my girlfriend did, otherwise I'd have told them to bag seperately. I'd seen them the day before and observed them for a while, but they didn't come off quarantine 'til the next day so I had to get my mrs to pick them up as she works near the shop but I live 50 mins away.

I rang the LFS and they said they would give me a full refund if I could take them back (dead) within 24 hours. Unfortunately that wasn't feasible, but it's the money I'm bothered about anyway.

Quote:

Says it all really.

A good reason to carry on as you are Mike.


Lol, that's a bit ageist :) but I know what you mean, I've met a lot of older keepers set in their ways, for example, my LFS guy is about 50 and still recommends cycling FW tanks with fish, and looked at me funny when I mentioned fishless cycling...

Thanks

Mike
Howard Howard
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  • Posted on: 20/1/2010 21:07
Re: Poorly Chromis #17
Not having a tiff mate , just trying to help . You don't seem interested in it though .

And as for the newbie piping up with that nonsense , do you not think that because something has been worked out throught trial and error to be correct that it's worth perserveing with it ?

Robin , people like you are the cause of so many unnessecary fish deaths its unreal ...

'Oh it'll be ok , just get on with it' ..... hilarious.

No one is giving you 'outdated' advice , just advice on how to give the fish the best chance of survival , that has been gleaned through years ( not just me , but of others too ) of fishkeeping. 25 years ago , it was thought that you had done well to keep a marine fish alive for a year in captivity.

Anyway , good luck with your tank.
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robinscp robinscp
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  • Posted on: 23/1/2010 0:49
Re: Poorly Chromis #18
Quote:


And as for the newbie piping up with that nonsense , do you not think that because something has been worked out throught trial and error to be correct that it's worth perserveing with it ?

Robin , people like you are the cause of so many unnessecary fish deaths its unreal ...

'Oh it'll be ok , just get on with it' ..... hilarious.

No one is giving you 'outdated' advice , just advice on how to give the fish the best chance of survival , that has been gleaned through years ( not just me , but of others too ) of fishkeeping. 25 years ago , it was thought that you had done well to keep a marine fish alive for a year in captivity.

Anyway , good luck with your tank.


Thanks for the great post Howard. Please let me address a few points.

1. Let me first start by saying that I am not a newbie.
Although time in the hobby means nothing IMO.

2. My name is Craig Robinson by the way not Robin.

3. My comment was not aimed at old fish keepers but those that frequent UR.

I have spoken to Mike about this problem and I am confident that he has not taken a step wrong.
I feel that the issue is with the fact that the fish have been directly imported and have had no time in quarantine.
Yeah sure Ideally Mike should quarantine his fish before adding them to his tank but I am sure 90% of us don't.

Regarding the stocking to fast issue, The live rock that Mike bought was fully cured and already a fully colonised bacterial filter and Mike began stocking his tank at an acceptable rate (IMO)

Seen as you are such a marine expert Howard, I look forward to viewing the pics of your reef tank because it must be amazing.
suey2 suey2
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  • Posted on: 23/1/2010 10:34
Re: Poorly Chromis #19
Chill out gentlemen

Don't forget anyone can read these posts. not just the OP or members of FK - your post could have been interpreted as advising against tried and tested methods, we don't want casual readers to misunderstand anything We have to advise bearing this in mind, as well as advising on specifics.

You are new to the site so we have no idea of your level of experience, you haven't filled in your profile (hint, hint) and you've told us nothing about yourself or your fish - you could be a fish keeping genius or a fish keeping train wreck Likewise it would need a crystal ball to know you're called Craig when your username is robinscp

Howard is a great advisor and knows his stuff, all he (and the rest of us) want is happy fish and happy fishkeepers

Having seen H's tank in RL I'd say it's pretty impressive, but hey, what do I know, I'm a goldie girl
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robinscp robinscp
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  • Posted on: 23/1/2010 11:51
Re: Poorly Chromis #20
Point taken Sue.