Re: 40 ltr Tropical tank needs bottom feeders/plecos?????
#50
Yup, and it will keep being addressed until people stop being so low concept on the outset of fishkeeping. DStandards are standards, it would be neglectful not to inform people of the foolish risks they naively take in buying overtly small aquaria. They wont stop asking and we wont stop telling them,come armageddon, hell freezing over, or the rest of eternity, or until the masses get it, and the seriousness of it, whichever happens to be first. Small aquaria are a fundamental problem in safe animal keeping and they lead to neglect, accidents, chemistry issues, behavioural problems and literally are the single largest cause of death, closely followed by lack of cycling accuracy and quarantine. Fish must fit the tank , its a fundamental part of basic fishkeeping. Anyone who doesnt think its important to get these things right is frankly an uncaring bloody moron who should stay away from animals. Its as tedious to hear mistake made for the thousandth time again on a forum as it is to have to pick it up and answer it correctly. But it has to be done. We don't really enjoy it, we do it to keep fish safe.
Minimums threaten lives, an enlightened race would have no problem seeing past these issues and doing better, or taking in a little advice. But thats life and people want to regard fish as a no cost easy to look after pet that can be done for pence and they have no awareness of water quality issues, and half the people on the planet think goldfish dont have feelings or can feel pain or remember anything, when its been scientifically confirmed repeatedly that they can. I view those who push for small tank culture as basically pig ignorant. Pig ignorance is where animal abuse starts.
For the benefit of all fish, it would be better if people recalibrated their mental preconception of what constitutes a decent size tank. Less than ten gallon is good for nowt in fishkeeping. Someone who thinks all but the tiniest species are happy in ten gallons really doesnt know much about fish, or being empathinc to another species, and lets face it isnt too sharp on abstract cognitive reasoning. Its a genuine sign of either ignorance, lacking instinct and logic, and often a combination of all three.It really doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out that no fish is really ever happy in that little space from a psychological standpoint, and the hobby has been apologising for people who are frankly , a bit slow on the uptake for far too long, and when we are put into a position of having to defend ourselves because peoples attitudes are a) badly skewed, b) unempathic, c) stupid, and d) bloody dangerous to animal health, frankly I start to get a bit miffed.
Tiny tanks are not ok as fish living accomodations. Just face up to it. Do the right thing, and stop playing devils advocate like your all 5 years old in a playground swopping trading cards for bubblegum. These are lives. Just sort it out. Were arent going to pander to peoples ignorance when their fish will be sufferring and dying from unnaturally high chemically induced deatsh and stereotypical behaviour. B ereal, its not gonna happen, because like it or not some people have dignity and care about what happens to animals.
If we have to throw our toys out of the pram occassionally its sheer desperation in the face of blody ignorance talking. Remember that. If you arent part solution, you are part of the problem. That goes for individuals and shops alike. Animals should not be allowed to suffer because people have stupid little fetishes for tiny tanks. If animal keeping is not to become a cruel, pathetic little childs hobby, then we have a duty to make sure people are clear on what constitutes a realistic and pragmatic level of safety, humane habitable space, and suitable enrichment.
The days of victorian bear pits are behind us, but give the average newbie aquarist a chance, and its straight back to the dark ages. People are that stupid, call it lacking education, lack of maturity, bad parental guidance, new levels of personal selfishness, the "me" generation, whatever, and thats why were here to tell them the truth when a corrupt animal trading industry cant be trusted to put welfare before profit. The reality is this. A good number of people instinctively realise that lots of fish in a small aquarium is not a good idea, I realised when I was about 4 years old, and so do millions of others, frankly, most of us would automatically feel like a complete git, putting an animal in a small space. We dont do it, we have that moral compass, and I believe its totally norrmal to have that compass, and that not having one is a problem. But on the forums, we get hit by some really obvious common sense questions. Questions that to people of average intelligence wouldnt get asked, now its not for me to judge why, but the fact is, its a case of having to pick up the back end for the slow ones, and if it means saving a life or two were happy to help. But if you were imagine that we'd humour the slow ones in order to make them feel better about themselves giving fish substandard accomodations, you'd be mistaken. Just because a petshop might have no standards and some other web forums are fishkeeping purely for people, where the animals needs are never considered, or given sufficient impetus does not mean we would allow this place to become the same intellectually hollow, morally irresponsible, and frankly loathesome kind of place.
Fishkeeping must have its ethics, it must have its structure, and part of that is ensuring fish safety, and in times where a lot of people are in the wrong, subject to bad marketing, shop indoctrination, and some really poor lazy personal standards, we have to fight pretty hard to stay on the straight and narrow. If we dont mention the size issue we would be without a doubt being neglectful and unrealistic in helping people.Small tank culture to be brutally honest, is something that only unenlightened beginners (forgivable)or more worryingly , persistantly bloody ignorant people (totally unforgivable) like. It is in no way, shape or form, clever to keep any fish species whatsoever in less than ten gallons of water, irrespective of species unless they happen to be absolutely tiny, and even then chemical safety is still a major consideration, no matter how well its filtered, and no matter how much water you change regularly.Its still not good fishkeeping.
To put it bluntly from an experienced keepers perspective, because frankly people need to hear this stated totally without any confusion or lack of clarity. Tiny aquaria with fish in are not clever, it is an intensely stupid persons sport. It is soley the domain, once those beginners months have passed, of the uncaring, and the stupid. What other name can you give a person who denies an animal humane levels of habitable space and safety except, shallow, ignorant, uncaring and persistantly bloody stupid.
It is what it is, theres no avoiding it. Even the small tank competition states that fish are not to be included in them, and people still dont get the hint. Bottom line, good moral fishkeepers who care about their pets do NOT keep them in tiny aquaria under 10 gallons. Ever. Those who do get marked down as muppets. If someone doesnt want to be a muppet, then they learn better and move on to better things so that their fish have a life, as oppose to merely being alive and living by grace alone, because the margin of error in safety is nearly nil.
Lets put it in perspective, the smallest tank I own is a twenty gallon quaratine tank, its specifically that size because it enables effortless and gentle water quality control for the singular average sized sick fish. It increases the chances of recovery radically because it isnt too small. It makes dosages safer, it has a decent o2 replacement rate, pre during and post med water changes can be smaller and safer, the accumulation of toxins slower. The fish is unlikely to be stressed in a comfortably siozed tank allowing the fish to remain stimulated, psychologically normal, thusly its immune system stays high and it will feed normally. This all maximizes the chances of recovery.
In a way its not so much that you can't keep fish alve in small tanks, we all know a lot of the time it can be done, but alive isnt the same as having a life. Im no health and safety freak, I smoke, I drink, my life can sometimes be chaos, and if i'm telling you that a small tank isnt safe, for gods sake listen, I speak from watching the death toll, I really really do. Small tanks are never clever , if the publics perception of what a totally average tanks was- as being what it always used to be before people started getting a bit retarded about fishkeeping, namely the 30 gallon STANDARD aquarium (clue is in the name really) then the fishkeeping world would be a better place. This looking at the 10 gallon as the standard size is a muppets sport, Its a minimum, not an average. I find people who ascribe to minimums basically disappoint as fishkeepers, and will always continue to do so. Fishkeeping will never be so advanced chemically that the 10 gallon will ever become the new 30 gallon, and even if it did it wouldnt matter, because what were talking about here is quality of life, and anyone who doesnt respect their fish's quality of life gets no respect from anyone else, end of story. Its not friendly, but its true, and its best out in the open.
Lets stop being so damn low concept, and become better fishkeepers who dont kill millions of fish every year like its normal. Fish die for numerous reasons, tanksize, water quality, lack of stability, lack of enrichment, disease , lack of quarantine, dwarfing, poor shipping standards, but fundamental to all that is bloody ignorance, and a lack of caring. At no point will ignoring the tanksize issue ever make any of that go away. If we do ignore it we will have accepted that ignorance, uncaring and exploitation IS fishkeeping, and if that day comes, i'll pack the hobby in , and petition for it to be banned. Fishkeeping is a priviledge, not a right, and doing it properly absolutely requires a humane perspective. Its not optional.
With every small tank sold, with every fish sold the same day as the tank, and whenever we fail to house an animal correctly we make PETA right about people keeping animals, and the RSPCA right about wanting import bans. If we lose the right to keep fish one day becauseof small tank culture, then if things have got that bad, i'll gladly kiss the hobby goodbye, with the sense that there really wasnt anything else to be done. P&h propaganda, bad stocking advice,stupid water quality advice novelty tanks, child oreinted marketing. I'll know who to blame if we ever do lose the right to keep fish.
If we dont keep things out of the gutter we will lose our rights in a more ethically minded society, and if we cant do better than this, then so be it.
Overall, thats why we have our rants and dont drop the subject or let it fly by unnoticed, and thats why we will always respond. The rights of the good fishkeepers will go down the pan all but for a seething mass of small tank loving idiots, and others who will never take fishkeeping seriously. Then the landmark court cases for animal abuse will be happening, and then its all over. Just sit and watch.
We like to keep the site polite and inclusive yes, but when people can't read between the lines, then i'm afraid the truth has to come out, no matter how unpaleatable it may be. Small tank owners are tolerated, not encouraged, its a grace of politeness given, especially when its taken into consideration that small tanks are marketed so vigourously, and that fishkeeping from a commerce point of view has been in a very bad place with the large chains seriously taking athe mickey with misinformation and a foul legacy of giving the public a skewed image of what constitutes good or even remotely acceptable animal care. We tend to be forgiving to the newbie because the shop is often their first point of contact.
But the truth is small tank culture is deeply foolish, a sport for the very worst of the naive. This situation should really shine out as blindingly obvious to anyone who knows animals well, and people are most definitely NEVER encouraged to take on fish they can't successfully and humanely home permanently on here.
Sorry to come over a bit vehement in the posting, but lets not kid ourselves, and make sure we see things as they really are. You see, somewhere along the line we got a bit confused about how much this stuff really matters. Lets make it clear, we are talking
literally millions of deaths every year in this country alone because of small tank culture. Its not clever in the way that cutting your toenails with a scythe isnt clever. The superficiality of the technical achievement in controlling water chemistry and keeping fish in a small volume of water is eclipsed completely by the kind of ignorance it takes to fail to realise that a fish deserves a quality of life that includes its mental well-being part of that being sufficient enrichment and reasonable freedom of movement.
Its stupid in a way like designing the perfect anti personel missile as a deterrant device, and then giving a terrorist group the first option on a purchase. Its a case of people not seeing the wood for the trees, and then when you add into the equation that people who like small tanks like to promote them at entry level fishkeepers, who are by definition, the people most likely to kill fish in them, because of lacking knowledge about fish behaviour, species remits, needs and of course almost nobody cycles without fish, and what you have is a very immoral and sinister culture that considers animal death little more than an inconveinience to their plans. I dont like that culture, and I never will.Unfortunately a whole industry is using it as a selling point, probably half the revenue of every fish superseller youve ever seen comes from this incessant small scale ever-repeated death. Its not right. It will never be right, and its not where fishkeeping should ever have found itself, and frankly it shames all of us.
If you dont wanted to be counted among the numbers of these fish killing b*******, then you tell people the truth. Its a duty of compassion and decency, and its the only thing that will bring change. I'm certainly not about to clam up and forget about it just so that some company owning sociopath can continue to grasp every penny from the unlearned newbie and profit from needless animal death. A nice little tank for someone with a real understanding micro species, a few shrimp some plants and obsessively anal water quality control fine, but no fish, not in pico size tanks and not for newbies. Its just hell in a handbasket. Tiny tanks and fish , its just a total recipe for disaster.
I actually shudder to think what reasoning goes through the mind of someone who thinks from a mature perspective rather than a newbie standpoint that a tank under 10 gallons could ever see a fish happy, healthy and safe. I can only assume it must be real, genuine, stupidity. Perhaps what they need is a few weeks in a cell at her majesty's pleasure to drive the message home for them a bit.
Never let it be said I didnt lay it down for you absolutely straight. Yes , i'm a grumpy old git, who wouldnt be when faced with this, but its the truth, and you all know it.