Hi Lizzywills

I am a few days late in making a response, so hopefully your wee fish is showing some signs of improvement. In case not, may I offer some advice for your consideration.

When fish are showing vague signs of malady it can be frustrating as we don't know what is wrong or how to fix the problem. My strongest advice in this type of situation is to take a step back and look at the basics:

1. Are there any external signs such as frayed fins, cuts, spots etc.

When none of these obvious signs give us a clue it can be tempting to reach for a cure all remedy but this is the worst thing you can do.

I would start with the water. I note the nitrate level is 20/40 and whilst usually not an overly significant problem in itself, it is probably not ideal if the fish is feeling stressed. It may be worthwhile starting with partial water changes of about 10lt every day to reduce the nitrate to as close to 5 as you can get. If practical aerate the water overnight beforehand. This is not a deal breaker, but every little improvement may help. Slowly removing and adding properly dechlorinated water on this scale for a few days will not normally adversely affect a fish.

If you have gravel in the tank and you don't normally syphon the gravel at water changes, I would also syphon the gravel. If the fish is not eating, I would suggest not feeding for a day or two to save affecting the water quality. When you do attempt to feed, only feed food that he / she normally eats and will recognise.

I note you have added an air stone. This is ideal as providing as much aeration as practical will also help. Ensure however you are not creating too much turbulence as the tank is quite small.

If the tank does not have a lid, I would suggest fitting one, or some type of cover in case the issue is from aerosol or similar in the air. Does the tank have some decoration for the fish to find cover? fish in my opinion benefit from stimulation and plants etc. can help reduce the 'goldfish bowl syndrome'.

If you normally have the light on, you may consider reducing this as well. The overall aim is to reduce the stress on the fish as much as practical and keep very clean water.

Many people advocate aquarium salt and I have used it myself, but not as a remedy per se, but more to do with helping again reduce stress on the fish. If adding salt, I would suggest using half the recommended dosage and increase over a couple of days. Obviously you need to add new salt to the new water being changed.

If the fish is showing some external signs, let the forum know and hopefully somebody can identify the issue, but the above advice is still relevant. If the issue is not external or to do with the water, it can be harder to diagnose and treat internal issues.

I would start with the above and keep an eye on him / her and hopefully this will help make some improvement.

Really hope things improve, but please keep the forum updated.

Regards

LOL easy to keep .........

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who found the whole experience stressful . I have had these wee guys in my tank now for about a month and from day one, it has been pretty awful. Loving the fish themselves, but my 'fancy goldfish experience' has really gotten off to a pretty poor start.

After a few days from my post, the fish started to settle in, but slowly. Over the coming week the problems started to manifest themselves -

1. white spot
2. anchor worm
3. fin damage from transit
4. scale damage from transit

Not a happy bunny as you can imagine

After a few days of watching the fish now that they were actually swimming about, the transit damage was becoming apparent. Not wanting to medicate straight away (to prevent any secondary infection), I monitored and just as well; for white spot broke out after about 2 further days. My tank is newly set up and fully cycled so clearly the 'ich' came as part of the package.

I also used Maidenhead and the lad was very good - even though I was taking my frustration out on him. Not his fault obviously, but he was getting the brunt of my frustration and concern. He recommended a pond treatment for the ich and thereafter an anti-bacterial treatment for any fin / scale damage and the wound near the pectoral fin. At this time, I didn't realise it was an anchor worm.

I treated the tank for Ich and when I realised it was an anchor worm, I was panicked. I have kept fish for many years but I have never had so many issues manifest themselves at the same time and I had never even seen an anchor worm before. Following advice from the dealer and some good information online, I managed to remove the worm without too much stress to either myself or the fish.

After a week of treatment and further week again with multiple W/C, I medicated with anti-bacterial and for nearly a week I could hardly see the fish - the water was deep green....

I am now just over a week on from finishing treatment and just when I thought all my concerns were behind me, I noted one of them was starting to have trouble keeping upright..... seriously, when was this nightmare going to end????

24hr without food and some peas thereafter the issue is now righted. I am very careful about diet, so was surprised when this started but seems to have righted itself very quickly, so no real drama.

As I say, I am loving the fish. They are beautiful and anything but boring, but the last month has been less than enjoyable - always glued to the tank looking for another problem and coming home or getting up in the morning and wondering if the fish are still ok.

Definitely not easy LOL

I have my doubts about one of them however. I'm not sure if it is just his normal behaviour or if he still has something underlying, but he spends more time than I would like, just happily floating. Not really moving. He seems ok otherwise and when he his moving about, he is moving fine.

Despite my less than perfect start, I am still very glad I decided to keep fancies.

Hi all,

I posted on here a few weeks ago as my newly acquired goldfish displayed signs of a bacterial infection within a few days of bringing him/her home. Unfortunately he/she passed over night as I was looking on here for some advice. See my post under emergencies.

Rather than using the forum to only seek advice, I thought I would share my most recent experience; which has caused me some concern over the last day, but hopefully my experience can assist someone else in a similar position.

After keeping a reef tank for the last 4 years, I was quite disillusioned with the hobby and it was time for a change. I needed something that would stimulate my interest after having to admit ‘defeat’ with saltwater. Defeat is being melodramatic, but the time, effort and expense far outweighed the enjoyment, so it was time to draw that experience to an end.

I had thought about discus, which I had kept briefly many years ago, but the memory of seeing a tank of good quality fancy goldfish has stayed with me over many years, so my next set-up was to be fancy goldfish – oranda’s to be specific. I don’t know why, but I just love the look of them.

After deciding to make fancies my next project, I set about looking for high quality fish. With respect to LFS, finding quality is like finding hen’s teeth. I had two options – use local LFS or use an on-line specialist. I opted originally to seek out ‘nice’ fish from the LFS albeit not the highest quality or widest variety.

After my initial disappointment, I decided on using an on-line specialist and I am now the proud ‘parent’ LOL, of 4 magnificent oranda’s – Calico red cap; Red; Panda and Tri-colour, but this is not the point of my post.

Given the distance between the dealer and myself, the fish when they arrived, had been in transit for around 16 hours or so; therefore I was prepared for apathy and some settling in, but I didn’t expect what transpired.

I have never had fish travel from the dealer to my tank for more than an hour, so I researched how to acclimate fish after a long journey. Unfortunately, whilst the Internet is a source of excellent information, it is also a haven for so much misinformation ranging from ludicrous to downright dangerous. Deciding what is actually properly researched advice and what is just regurgitated anecdotal information with no solid basis can sometimes be quite challenging.

Based on research and my own experience, I decided to float the bag for 15 minutes and check the PH when I opened the bag; which was around 6.6 and my normal is around 7.4. Some advice is to immediately transfer the fish into the tank and others is to add some tank water.

I have kept many types of fish for many years, but I have never been so stressed acclimating these wee guys. I was really starting to over-think the process simply because I was conscious they had been in a bag for so long.

I checked the PH, and added some tank water slowly over the next 20 minutes. I had read goldfish (perhaps most others as well) accept moving to a higher PH but are less tolerant of moving to a lower PH, but I don’t know the validity of this. I was now in a quandary – do I add water and check the PH until I get a match – but over what time period? 20 minutes / 60 minutes? I have acclimated many fish and even quite a few corals, but I was really starting to over-think this whole process, so it was time to add them to the tank.

Something I don’t think I have done before when transferring fish is to use my hands. I have noted on-line, many goldfish suppliers / breeders etc. often handle the fish. This seemed more pragmatic than trying to use the net, and certainly is how I would transfer these guys again if need be. Obviously certain precautions are required to ensure you don’t damage the scales with dry hands or drop the fish.

After 30-minutes of 3 fish sitting on the gravel, I was starting to be concerned. After 60-minutes, I was getting very concerned. Near 2 hours and I was worried. I had one fish moving about the tank pretty much how I would expect, but I had 3 fish that were just sitting there and when they moved, it wasn’t the most graceful. (Swim bladder issues??)

I was starting to second-guess my acclimation process and was concerned after being in a bag with a shallow body of water for so long, the extra pressure of the water depth was having an effect.

My tank is quite deep, so after about 30-minutes I reduced the water level, eventually over a period of time by 50% and whilst I was getting some lethargic movement, it was not filling me with confidence, but there was an improvement.

After 2 hours I phoned the dealer who assured me this was perfectly normal behaviour and not to worry. His advice was simply to ensure the fish have good water and not interfere with them.

After speaking with him, I started to fill the tank back up slowly and for a short period, my temperature started to rise and perhaps it was coincidental, but the fish seemed more alert and started moving more.

After a further 3 hours, I had 3 fish moving about, albeit 2 of them were quite lethargic, but at least there was an improvement. The following morning, I had the 4 fish moving about the tank slowly but this is exactly the type of behaviour I had expected shortly after putting them in the tank. I wasn’t expecting the level of lethargy and sitting on the bottom for extended periods of time.

This is the reason for my post. Goldfish I have come to learn, do behave in many ways differently from tropical / salt water fish and behaviour that I would normally associate with illness / severe stress, is perhaps not as abnormal as first thought.

My advice based on this experience being – if you are transporting goldfish over an extended period of time, acclimate the way YOU are comfortable. Don’t over-analyse your process. Have a plan and stick to it.

Consider lowering the tank water depth for a period of time to help with any pressure difference associated with the fish being in a shallow body of water for such a long time. Increase the temperature slightly, either with a heater or with the new water being added and add an extra air stone.

My experience may be completely different from others and a number of factors could contribute to the behaviour I experienced and some of the measures I adopted may not be beneficial (not detrimental either) and maybe just a panacea for me to feel I am doing something.

The advice I will leave you with is the same, which the dealer gave me. Don’t worry; this type of behaviour is perfectly normal. Ensure they have good water and leave them alone.

Hope this short experience helps.

Hi fcmf,

knew I missed something.

With regard PH, hardness etc. The shop purchased from is relatively local (20 miles), but they have a number of stores in Scotland and all the goldfish stock from the wholesalers goes to another reasonably local store for onward distribution. (30 miles from me).

Given the water supplies will be generally similar for all the shops and indeed my own area, I was quite confident that I would have broadly similar water conditions. None of the shops use salt routinely.

My original plan was to purchase locally for this very reason, but being honest, I am not overly impressed with the general selection or quality of the 'fancy' goldfish available in my part of the world and this is not a reflection on this particular fish.

A specialist online gets good reviews, but I need to consider if we have similar water conditions - Generally soft with a 7.4ish PH. I can make adjustments, but with anything, it makes life so much easier if there is close compatibility.

Thanks again

HI fcmf,

Much appreciated you took the time to respond. I have tried to upload a few pictures, but no guarantees. I appreciate the emergency is now over, so will leave for a moderator to decide if this post should now be in a different forum.

To give a bit more information. I purchased the oranda on Sunday and he was looking in very good health and was eating in the shop - hence I purchased the same pellets. I did not feed him again until the next evening (Monday) to give him time to settle in the QT.

The QT is only 45lt, but is only a temporary accommodation. My main DT is 300lt plus my sump and is currently going through a cycle. The intent was simply to keep this wee guy in QT for a few weeks and thereafter transfer him into the main tank once it is cycled. It is my plan to have 4 orandas in the DT and each new purchase will go through the QT for 3/4 weeks and this will give time for the my DT biological filter to adjust.

I have a small community tank with a Fluval U3 filter and these filters have two separate filter cartridges. I have the same filter for the QT and swapped over an established filter cartridge to give me an established filter - albeit it is only 50% efficient, but I was monitoring all parameters and carrying out 20% daily WC, with twice daily 20% changes to be carried out every 3rd/4th day. Swapping new filter cartridges and using the community tank to 'seed' each new cartridge for a month or so, will hopefully give me a working biological filter in the QT - albeit at a reduced capacity, but that is always a difficult trade off with QT tanks.

The fish seemed to settle, albeit he seemed quiet but not unusually so. The QT is bare bottomed but I have a vase with some gravel to give both some protection to the fish and give the opportunity to sift the gravel. I was feeding him lightly twice daily and by Wednesday he wasn't eating all his pellets, so I tried him with some frozen blood worm. I had used the same pack for other fish and indeed the same batch as he was fed. He ate the bloodworm with gusto and he was fed a little bit of this on Thursday. I also fed him some Tetra crisps, but not the goldfish variety. The intent was simply to see if I could have him eating.

On Friday he was breathing more heavily but not overly excessively, but I added another airstone as a precaution and he never took any food at all. During the previous few days I had noticed some white / clear poo but put this down to stress, slight change in diet etc. but continued to monitor.

On Friday evening there was a significant discharge (hopefully the pic will upload). I am not a vet or biologist, but this did not seem remotely normal or only poo. In order to take as immediate action as practical, I used a local general pet store who open until 8pm. I showed the pictures to the staff member who seemed quite confident it was an internal infection, although he had never seen it so significant. He advised Melafix, but before starting on a course of treatment, I sought a second opinion from the forum.

By the time I returned from the shop, there was an extensive discharge from the rear of the fish and this was easily 12 inches (25cm). Unfortunately by the following morning, the wee guy had passed. Given the discharge, I doubt it was related to stress or food and it was possibly a blessing for the fish.

I took him back to the shop and showed the staff the pictures and after testing the water, they seemed satisfied it was bacterial but had never seen it to this extent before.

My first foray into goldfish keeping hasn't gotten off to the best of starts, but at least the fish did not appear to overly suffer.

Thanks once again for the assistance and any help in keeping goldfish is much appreciated.

All,

Just to update. Sadly or perhaps kindly for the fish given the discharge, he / she passed overnight. I would still be very keen for advice on possible causes however. I am 'guessing' an internal infection (tape worm?) or some similar, but that's not based on experience.

He / she was in my quarantine tank and before purchase, i paid very close attention and there was no signs at all of anything untoward - but it just goes to demonstrate, even the most careful observation in the dealers tank is no substitute for quarantine.

Any advice on cause would be welcome for my own eduction. As often said - everyday is a school day.

Thanks

All,
looking for some pretty urgent advice. Been keeping fish for a long time, but first time with goldfish.

Tank is 45lt QT and temp = 22/23C. Set up a week but with an established filter (Fluval U3). Ammonia, Nitrite = 0. Nitrate >5. Phosphate unknown. Hardness unknown but generally soft water. Tank is bare bottom but have a vase with some gravel for decoration. Since last Sunday being carrying out daily 20% WC with 40% yesterday. Current inhabitant 3 inch Oranda purchased under a week ago. Feeding regime - frozen bloodworm, JBL gold pearl pellets and tetra crisps.

Fish been alert but quiet and eating normally. Last couple of days noticed clear 10mm long portions of poo on bottom of tank. Tonight noticed large (40mm coiled) stringy brown / red discharge with attached clear discharge (coiled approx 70mm long). Currently a 10inch 250mm length of white discharge distending from rear of fish.

Since tonight, fish now breathing more rapidly, but not excessively. To aid aeration an extra airstone has been added. Current aeration consists of 2 air stones and surface agitation from filter outlet (set low).Internal bacterial infection ??

Spoke with local pet shop tonight and they advised Melafix but want to get some better advice before starting any medications. Advice welcome.

thanks in advance.