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Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 16/1/2010 10:25
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #61
Yes,Nitrates have increased since I increased stock and I've adjusted my water change regime to cope with this. I used to change water once a week, now it's twice. Using the API test kit I get a colour somewhere between the 20 and 40 readings. So I approximate this to be about 30 for Nitrates. I also have a lot of plants in the tank to help in using up the nitrates. The Johnsson and Hess book says that Nitrates of 40-50 are fine for goldies, although this should be maximum, and I would obviously prefer this to be lower. I tested my tap water before for nitrates and it was 0.

Violet - yes, I know the tank is not large enough for the 4 fish long term. That is why I am upgrading to a much larger tank as soon as I can. But I'm not in the position to do that at the moment as I live in a 1 bed flat and am hoping to move house in the next few months. So I'm going to have to wait until I move before I go and buy a larger tank. I'm looking at tanks of 240L approx. And cutting my stock levels isn't an option.

I will test my tap water ph later and post the results. Yeah, I've read that ph changes can cause irritation but the last water change was Thursday. My moor, who has always been the one most affected by scratching, has lost a large scale this morning. He also has a scrape on his side which he's had since he started flashing again a week or so ago. This is depressing! Thought I'd solved the problem, but it seems something is still living in the tank that's not supposed to be! Grrr! All fish are extremely active this morning and have been chasing constantly which is a good sign. No lethargy or fin clamping.

What do you think of this idea - I have 5 Droncit tabs left. This isn't ebough for a full 2.5mg/L dose as this requires 7.5 tabs, but should I add the tabs I have to try and treat the flukes in the meantime? If I order more Droncit today I can have this by Tues I think. Is it worth adding this lesser dose of Droncit today to start things off again or should I wait for the moment? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks all.


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 15/1/2010 22:24
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #62
Thanks Cathie. My tank ph is always 7.4. Nitrates have increased since increasing stock - constant 30-40ish. I've never tested my water ph to be honest - is it worth doing if the tank ph is ok?

I always use dechlorinator as I believe my tap water contains chlorine and chloramine (got a report from the water company!). I use AquaPlus and always have done, no problems.

Fish a bit itchy tonight again. I think I will order some more Droncit and use 3 or 4 doses. I do worry though about how much is safe to use. Although, I've read it's really difficult to overdose on it?

I don't know of anyone who would do a scrape for me - it would have to be me doing the scrape! If I can avoid putting the fish through the stress of this (and me!!) I will. Surely it must stress the fish? I'm inclined to try the longer course of Droncit since it was so effective before, and then if this doesn't work, investigate with a microscope.

I will look into the Sterazin - thanks for that info. The other option is a UV of course, but it might be wiser to wait until I upgrade the tank before buying and installing one of those. How easy/difficult are these to install or use? You can just use them to zap bugs can't you and then stop running it?


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 15/1/2010 13:33
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #63
Thanks everyone. It's really nice have found this forum and be able to get help and advice again.

I am 99.9% sure it's flukes. As I don't have a microscope and am pretty terrified to do a scrape anyway, I followed the advice in Johnson and Hess and used blanket treatments to rule things out. But I'm only prepared to use at the moment, and have only used, treatments that are kind to fish, filter and plants. I have no desire to wipe out my filter bacteria! So using the salt and then the Droncit which I know have no ill effects seemed like the best idea to cover all parasites.

As I said, the salt had little effect so I tried the Droncit and the improvment in the fish was startling. I haven't seen my moor and fantail so active for months. The gill clamping and rapid breathing has stopped, so I assume they had gill and body flukes.

Jay - I too have read many conflicting dosage guidelines for Droncit. The J&H book is conflicting too! The section on Flukes says a 3rd treatment may be necessary just in case, but the Droncit section suggests only 2 treatments needed. And I have read the advice online too on various sites about dosing several times and for several weeks. I read that Droncit stays active in the water for approx 3 days. Combine this with the lower water temp of the tank slowing fluke hatching etc, I re-dosed on day 4. But I am inclined to think that yes, some of the flukes may have survived or hatched after the 2nd dose was ineffective and have started to reinfect.

Does anyone know how many doses of Droncit are safe? Would 4 in total be safe for example, if I dosed every 3 or 4 days? Frances - could you perhaps ask the goldfish experts tomorrow for me?!! :)

What's Sterazin? Just before I go and Google it?!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 15/1/2010 13:20
Re: Panda Moor in pain #64
Hi Frances, it's horrible isn't it, when they are unwell with fins clamped, and we can't figure out what the problem is? Is this the first time that Zeta has been clamping and lethargic?

I really hope someone at GSGB can advise you tomorrow. Surely they will be able to recommend a vet.


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 15/1/2010 11:06
Droncit Vs Flukes! #65
Hi All, just looking for some advice on the use of Droncit to clear flukes completely. I've been using this, but my fish seem itchy again! Here's the background;

I have 4 fancy goldfish (2 adult, 2 babies) in 165L tank. Before you say it, yes, I know I'm overstocked, and this was kinda deliberate (PFK people, you know the story!). I had my 2 adult fish in the 165L, then I got 2 baby moors from Frances on PFK. I planned to take only 1 and keep to the correct stocking of the tank, but I couldn't resist a real cutie of a panda baby moor! I always did, and still intend, to upgrade the tank in the next few months. The tank is stable, the filter is coping fine, and I change 1/3 of the water in the tank twice a week. All fish healthly and happy.

However, since about the summer, and before I got the baby fish, the adult fish have been irritated by something, scratching, losing the odd scale etc. This was minor irritation, with no slimecoat changes at all. But at the start of December, things got much worse. They were almost jumping out of the tank with irritation and their slimecoat started to react leaving white patches all over them. I treated according to the Johnson and Hess book - added salt to the tank to 0.3% and left for 11 days. This had no effect apart from helping the slimecoat, so I treated for Flukes using Droncit. The fish had also been lethargic, fins clamped and gills clamped with rapid breathing, so I assumed I had a fluke problem when the salt didn't work.

Within a day or 2 of the first Droncit dose (2.5mg/L) the fish were like new! No scratching, slimecoat healing, no clamping and their energey levels were amazing! I added the 2nd dose on day 4, when the fish were beginning to scratch a bit again. That was about 2 weeks ago, and the fish were again brilliant. Scratching completely stopped, they were very lively and no fin clamping. Thought I'd cured the problem.

Now, since about a week ago, 2 of the fish have been scratching again (only the adults, the babies seem to have had little irritaion at all since they joined the big tank). It's really annoying that they seem to be irritated again now after such a drastic improvement in them after the Droncit. The moor is also starting to sit on the bottom of the tank again on occassion and not look too happy. It's making me sad.

So, my question is, is 2 doses of Droncit enough, or for a very bad fluke infestation should I have added a 3rd dose? I'm assuming now that some flukes survived and have started to breed again and irritate the fish. Should I re-dose with Droncit again, using 3 doses this time at 4 day intervals? Would appreciate any advice, if anyone has experienced this and can comment on the effectiveness of Droncit?

Thanks very much, and sorry for the huge message! :)


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 15/1/2010 10:41
Re: Panda Moor in pain #66
Hi Frances, sorry to hear about Ziggi. I know you've tried everything you can. If the poo is still stringy after deworming her and giving her some time to clear any infection by herself, then perhaps it is an infection in the gut/swimmbladder that requires medication? I can understand your reluctance to administer meds though without any proof it is infection. Hopefully someone with more experience of this will be able to help soon. x


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 14/1/2010 23:06
Re: A few fancy goldfish queries #67
Hi Andi! :)

I was thinking a similar thing. Rachy - how often are you testing your water? I would have thought that at any point there could be trace ammonia in a tank, but because we aren't all testing the water several times a day we never know it's there. Is this possible? Like Andi, not sure if this is likely, but it seems it could be. I know there can be ammonia spikes after feeding for example, or when a lot of the substrate is moved or cleaned.

And, hello there Ziggy! Sorry you're still cycling your tank! Blimey, you must have some patience! :D


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 14/1/2010 14:03
Re: A few fancy goldfish queries #68
Hi Rachy, sorry about the problems you're still having with the tank cycling. I know it's a long shot, but have you consdiered that there could be a piece of plant or something stuck in the gravel that you haven't seen and it's rotting, pushing the ammonia up slightly? It seems so strange that after all this time it's still showing ammonia after a few days. Have you taken all the plants out and vacuumed really well to the bottom of the tank? Some plants roots can rot and the filter might not be coping.

I think you are stocked correctly for the 125L and could accomodate 1 more in the 180L. You know I go by these stocking rules too from PFK! You look after your fish fantastically and you will be able to see as they grow if they need a new tank or not.

As for QT period and tank, I used a 35L as you know but this was for very small fish. I had to do a near 100% water change each day to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0 and it was hard work, but worth it. I think adding the salt is a good idea too to get rid of any parasites. I QT'd for 3 weeks and had no problems.


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 14/1/2010 13:41
Re: Best external filter for 160 litre tank? #69
Hello!!! Found you all!

I've been in contact with Frances by email/text and she told me about you all being here now. It's great to be back online and catch up! Hope you and your fishes are all well?

Squish - I too am planning my tank upgrade for the next few months - those baby fishes grow fast don't they?! Prof Z looks like a ping pong ball he's growing so round!

What tank are you thinking about getting for the upgrade? I find the choice of filters for tanks a bit confusing, plus, I'm scared of external filters since having the trickle filter built into my tank!



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