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Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 20/1/2010 16:12
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #31
Hi, I will try and search for more info on Prazi, as I'd been mostly searching for Droncit info. But you're right, it's the same thing! Silly me!

Rachy - I started the Droncit treatment while I still had salt in the tank. I had finished the salt treament and was in the process of taking this out of the tank with water changes, but I couldn't wait until all the salt was gone as the fish were lethergic. From what I read, Droncit is safe with salt, and I didn't see any side-effects in my fish.
But I do still think we should avoid generally using 2 meds at once, even though both of these are very mild for the fish. Salt is a medication, so if you can avoid it, I wouldn't use both at the same time. One then the other. I just didn't have a choice in this case as my fish were quite bad.

Jay - yes, been dosing using the actual mg dose of prazi in the Droncit tabs.

It's a very easy medication to use I have to say, and I saw no ill effects on the fish, filter or plants. The only slight reaction I saw was the moor flash quite a lot when it first went in the water, and he did look unhappy for an hour or so, but then was completely fine. It was just the powder sticking to him that was irritating him and the change in water. All the other fish didn't even bother when I added it to the tank - carried on as normal!
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 20/1/2010 13:30
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #32
Hiya, I think you're right to wait and see for the moment, he may stop scratching. But if it increases or there are other signs he's not happy then we can investigate further.

Regarding the gill clamping, you could see that the fish were holding one gill closed and breathing with only the other one. This caused rapid breathing, and they could stay like this for an hour or so sometimes, eiher sitting on the gravel or swimming about. It wasn't nice to see. They too were scratching their faces/gills on the gravel. From what I've read gill flukes and body flukes usually are seen together. With my fish I think I've got rid of the body flukes but perhaps the gill flukes are still present as they lay eggs which aren't affected by treatment until they hatch. I'm quite anxious actually that I'll never get rid them! I can't find much guidance at all on Droncit and am worried about over doing it.
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 20/1/2010 10:43
Re: Nitrate Levels #33
Hi again, the other problem with sand in a goldy tank is that you will have virtually nil chance if having a planted tank for long! Goldies dig plants up (they are kinda like amateur interior decorators who think they know best!) which is why gravel is the best option for plants. Sand is a poor substrate for plant growth too. Honestly, changing that sand out of the tank will be easy and replacing it with appropriate gravel is the best option for your fish. It was also mean you can plant properly and will save you problems long term.

If you have a gravel substrate you should take the plants out of the pots and remove all the mineral wool surrounding the roots. Plant straight into the substrate, but not too deep, just the root should be covered. When you get the plants let us know what you buy and we can advise on the different planting requirements - some with bulbs need to planted just on top of the substrate for example. Floating plants without roots, like elodea, can be planted or left floating. They will be sold with little weights on, which I usually leave on and plant into the substrate. Before planting any plants though, have a really good look at the roots and remove any that are broken or rotting. The same goes for elodea - if planting remove the bottom leaves from the stem so they are not under the substrate rotting. But this advice about planting in the substrate only applies to gravel really - as said before, the sand is too shallow (as it needs to be to avoid anaerobic build-up) to plant anything in really.
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Quite a regular
  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 23:12
Re: Droncit Vs Flukes! #34
Hi Rachy, of course I'll try and help you out with this

It's tricky to know when to treat and when not to treat. You know the bother my moor and fantail have been having with scratching, as discussed on PFK months ago. It started with the moor and the fantail was unaffected for months. He would scratch 3 or 4 times an evening. Sometimes he wouldn't scratch at all and I would think he was fine again. This has been going on since the summer really. He didn't have any slimcoat damage, but would lose the occasional scale or get a scratch on his side. He bady damaged his eye once from scratching on the gravel, but it healed up fine.

I was very reluctant to treat as I don't think you should just jump in with things.

Other symptoms my fish had later on were:
Scratching several times a night
Scratching severely - almost jumping out of the tank!
Clamped gill
Occasional rapid breathing - usually with clamped gill
Fin flicking
After time - lethary, clamped fins, generally looking unhappy, slimecoat patches

It was when the irritation got much worse and when the gills and fins were clamped I decided to treat with filter safe fish friendly treatments. I brought the tank up to 0.3% salt solution and left this for 11 days. Little effect. So I tried the Droncit - 2.5mg/L, 2 doses 4 days apart. The difference in the fish was incredible - after a day or two of the Droncit in the tank they were full of energy and stopped scratching. However, I'm dosing with Droncit again when I get my order since the scratching has started again - don't think I got all the flukes stages with 2 doses.

Now, I would keep a very close eye on the fish for the moment. If you can emlimiate all other causes of irritation, then it may be parasites. I think parasites affect different fish in different ways. Having 4 fish in my tank - the moor has been affected the most, then the fantail, and the baby fish seem much less affected. They rarely scratch and are active constantly. I think perhaps some fish can build a certain immunity to some parasites almost, and some can't. Not sure, but I read something to this effect in the J&H book about Flukes, and I think I have witnessed this in my tank to some extent.

If the fish is going crazy with scratching, like violently throwing his face into the gravel, off the tank walls, and swimming at speed all over the tank in a jerky motion, then that is too much irritation. Is he doing this?

Don't do anything at the moment - lets try and figure out his exact symptoms and if they match those of my fish. Then we can figure out what to do. X
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 20:49
Re: Nitrate Levels #35
Hi Chief Brody - some more bad news for you unfortunatley! Sand is a no-no in goldfish tanks. Goldfish like to dig in the substrate and the sand irritates their gills. Also, sand can become anaerobic quite easily I believe. This is is because it gets compacted and there will be spots in the sand that aren't getting air causing toxins to build up which can be dangerous for the fish. How deep is the sand? A thin layer is a way to avoid this and you must make sure you are cleaning the substrate properly with a gravl vac with each water change and stirring it through in the tank, carefuly though, so there are no dead spots. But long term, you're going to want to change that sand out for gravel. 3mm dorset pea gravel is what many of us use as it's small enough for the fish to spit out and not get stuck in their mouths.

Live plants are a must I would advise. They use up the Nitrate in the water, keep the water clear, provide safe cover for the fish, entertainment for them as they play, and vital addition to their diet. They do dig them up yes, but that's goldfish for you! If you wanted a perfect tank you shouldn't have picked goldfish!!

I would advise you lose the plastic plants as they will have sharp bits that could easily damage the eyes of your googly fish.

Keep asking questions, it's how we all learned!
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 20:09
Re: Nitrate Levels #36
You've made the right choice taking back 1/2 of your stock and you can already see the benefit in your lower and more acceptable Nitrate level.

Moors and telescopic fish are my favourite - I have 4! Good choice!

With telescopic fish it's really important that there are no sharp edges or objects in your tank that they can damage their eyes on. Remove any plastic ornaments etc. To keep the Nitrate low and give the fish something to hide and play in add lots of real aquatic plants. You can get easy to grow ones like elodea, hygrophila etc and I would recommend you order these online to get a better choice. I use The Green Machine. Your fish will also love nibbling the plants and they will provide and essential part of their diet. Plants also use Nitrate as a fertiliser so you won't need to use the chemical Nitrate remover at all.
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 13:34
Re: A few fancy goldfish queries #37
Yeah! It was like little worms! They looked like worms/hairs, and I spent ages looking so closely at him trying to figure out if it was a mystery worm! But as the others didn't have these I finally concluded too that it was slimecoat trails. They were on his eyes too! Yuck! All gone now though!
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
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  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 13:31
Re: Advice on new tank #38
Hmm, that's made me think actually. But, I don't really have the room for 2 tanks. Space is limited anyway which is why we're looking to move soon, plus I do want to have only 1 tank. There's the maintenance issue with 2 tanks which I want to avoid, plus, the babies have got really attached to the big fish now! It's too cute how they follow them about and I could't split them up!
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
  • Quite a regular
  • Quite a regular
  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 13:22
Re: Discrepancy in Nitrate Tests #39
Hi Rachy, thanks for some reassurrance. I figure I'm limited at the moment about what I can do for the Nitrate levels. Obviously, I'm watching it carefully, and the fish seem to be having no ill effects from the slightly higher level and I know Ammonia and Nitrite have always been 0.

Adding more plants and doing the water changes are what I'm doing to help, but ultimately a new tank is needed long term. There are no buoyancy issues at all. I think I need to not over-react to the Nitrate levels either. I was thinking about doing another large water change tonight, but I did 50% on Sunday, and after testing yesterday, the level was back to where it usually is, 20-30 approx. Large water changes seem to have little effect and I don't want to get into adding new water every day as this will stress the fish. It seems like the Nitrate level wants to steady at just below 40. Will see if more plants help.
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!


Miss Pennyapple Miss Pennyapple
  • Quite a regular
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  • Posted on: 19/1/2010 10:51
Re: Advice on new tank #40
Right, I've asked my dad if he knows any engineers who might be able to help advise. He's a retired town planner so should hopefully have some contacts!

I know it's impossible for this forum to advise 100% but I just wanted peoples thoughts on the matter. I remember there was an article on this very subject on the PFK forum but I didn't read it! Wish I had now!!

The other option is to get a slightly smaller tank to the 260L. I like the AquaOne 980 (215L) but not sure if this volume of water would make a huge differnce? But in theory, going by PFK stocking guidelines, it would be sufficient.
165L AquaOne - 1 Blackmoor, 1 red telescope fantail, 1 white telescope, 1 panda moor

Tank upgrade on its way!



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