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paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
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  • Posted on: 20/6/2015 15:50
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #11
This is actually sounding more and more like it! When I first came here there was a building called a fruit store built in the 50s in place of the original, it had always been there but the old one knocked down because it was a shed and a new one erected out of bricks and mortar, I have turned that into an home office now.

There are tons of fruit tree's in the garden ranging from damson and Victoria plum to apples and pears so I think we may have cracked it, although the pond definitely was not used for watering plants at this time as the elderly lady remembers it having fish in around 70 years ago.

I don't know when mains water was installed but I should imagine this took over the dipping ponds job at that point when going green was not an issue or there were not any hosepipe bans, there also used to be a well here which I am trying to recover all that remains of it at the moment is a breathing pipe sticking out of the ground.

Yes that has been a lot of help, and thank you :)

as for garden heaven I think it's one of those things you work towards in life, I knew what I wanted 20+ years ago it took that time to find it, it had all the facets I wanted in a house and then some, it still surprises me now as I learn more about it even down to the pond outside, so I would say take your ideal dream and work towards it and you will definitely achieve it one day, it has always worked for me anyway.

The only thing that puts a downer on it is ?the weeds? they are vicious for want of better words, the earth is almost black so everything loves it here and grows easily including the weeds :(

I spend all the time I can in it :)

Thanks for your help
Paul

Quote:

dismalscientist wrote:
That sounds about right then! At Quarry Bank Mill the pond.....................


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
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  • Posted on: 19/6/2015 14:22
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #12
Hi dismalscientist: That would make absolute sense actually! The gardens are huge (nearly half an acre) and it?s a constant battle to keep everything in order, I have about 6 IBC 1000ltr containers dotted around the garden collecting rainwater from various greenhouse workshop etc. this makes more sense than anything else and would need to do some more research in this direction.

Of course the gardens have changed considerably over the hundreds of years but there would have had to of been something to do this in order to maintain the garden itself way back then it was twice this size, I find it a bit of a battle myself even with all the modern methods but then the garden is my piece of heaven.

Still does not answer its water retaining capabilities and of course the lime but then this may have dissipated over this length of time and it also could actually be older than initially thought.

Don?t suppose there are any pictures of it at Quarry Bank Mill?

Paul


Quote:

dismalscientist wrote:
I can't add to any of the pond/ fish related things, but this looks a lot like a dipping pond. There's a very large one at Quarry Bank Mill - the idea I think was to collect rainwater, and gardeners would dip their watering cans in to water fruit and vegetable patches. Of course it could be something entirely different but thought I'd share just in case :)


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
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  • Posted on: 16/6/2015 22:06
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #13
Meriad, yes; that is what I would like to turn it into as well as a pond with a central water feature and the English heritage is a good idea because I have no idea now.

The koi are well protected in the large pond as it is very deep and has quite a few plants growing in there so contrary to popular belief koi can live with plants provided they are weighted down enough they do still have a go though, especially if the plant is new, I have found old chimney pots to be ideal for this provided they are completely clean of soot first of course, no sharp edges and heavy enough for the meanest koi.

Just very curios (wildlife eating koi) as there was a conflict there having something to help the wildlife on one hand should they fall in verses terrorising the koi with predators by helping the wildlife on the other.

I suppose a balance in some way would be ideal, the rocks were tapered as to prevent the koi getting too close but enough so something else could climb out, frogs have no problem with it.

Anyway thanks for your input :)
Paul


Quote:

meriad wrote:
Paul, I wonder if it used to be a water feature or fountain vs a pond hence being so close to the house? Just wondering how the Victorian would have built the various fountains; what materials they used?

Have you thought about contacting someone from English Heritage or the National Trust?

And thanks for considering the wildlife

As for preventing wildlife eating your Koi, I suspect the only things that would do that are heron, cats or foxes? And short of netting or grids it's going to be a tough one to protect the fish 100%. Lots of hiding places for them would be the best start?


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
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  • Posted on: 16/6/2015 12:05
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #14
Hi meriad, yes there was previously a rock construction for them to get in and out that has temporarily been taken away obviously whilst I empty it which is turning out to be a slow process because of evasive fish, thanks for your comment about the plank.


Actually that is a good point and raises another question! Whilst ensuring any other wildlife can get out how do you ensure ?other wildlife? do not kill the fish? And use whatever platform to get them?


I don?t know if it was originally built as something else? That is something I hope to find out however; the pond has been used as such for the last 30 years 100% confirmed, the previous owners were here for that time, and one elderly lady neighbour remembers playing near it as a child and cannot remember it being anything else other than a pond with fish in it, that is why I know for sure it?s been there at least 70 years.

To my knowledge it has never been cleaned the previous owners did not do it and it shows, I am almost dreading getting to the bottom of this one.

Thanks
Paul
Quote:

meriad wrote:
Not sure if that would be a pond or not, looks very interesting.

But if I may make one comment - the sides look quite steep and deep, if something falls in there it won't be able to get out. Any chance you could put a plank of wood or some other type of ramp in there to give our poor wildlife a chance? With summer coming up there no doubt will be a hedgehog or fox or other animal desperate for some water and they can so easily fall in but not get out

thank you!


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Posted on: 16/6/2015 11:38
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #15
Good and interesting point 2010 (You are right it will be interesting to see what it looks like when it is emptied) and thanks for uploading the pic?s however; the one inlet pipe which is clay 5-6? round approx. comes from part of the house rainwater system directly from the roof gutter ?on part? of the roof and the other clay pipe we could call an outlet goes to a very well-constructed soak away next to the house, so whoever built this did it on purpose to circulate the water in the 9 foot circumference pond / sump or drain.

I can see where you are going and it?s only empty in the pictures because I am trying to get the fish out it?s normal retained height is just under those two pipes as you can see from the water mark, it maintains this height right through the summer months there is some evaporation but very little so if it was some sort of drain it does not work very well :) and/or it?s age has caught up with it but again will need to clear it out before I can confirm that.

Whatever it is the question is how was it constructed and why or how does it retain water? It housed 7 of my 18-24? koi for a short period of months whilst the bigger pond was built.

I am having a bit of a time with the baby koi at present and it is a battle of wits, got most of them into the big pond now but there is a group of very clever ones that burrow into the silt and gaps in the gravel when I go anywhere near the pond / sump / drain, trying hard not to stress them out but they are making life very difficult.

A few other points to consider this is right outside i.e. within 10-15 foot of the French doors leading into the house, I find it hard to imagine that a drain of this magnitude (it holds roughly 6500 Litres "as far as i know") question then is would it be built so close to the house itself and only service one piece of gutter, additionally; there is no lip for anything to sit on i.e. a lid the top edges are beveled and smoothed.

It has got me beat, looking at drain construction in the early 18-1900s now :)

Anyone else have any other suggestions?

Thanks
Paul


paulgee paulgee
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  • Posted on: 14/6/2015 0:59


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Posted on: 14/6/2015 0:33
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #17
Hello Fishlady no this is definitely a mortar mix of some description and there is no clay on the exterior to retain the water.

I always thought they used lime in their mixes years ago? does lime dissipate over time? it looks to be the same consistency as the mortar used on the bricks on the second part of the house built in the 1900s.

Hi 2010, I selected the two check boxes to attach the photos? will try again.

EDIT: NOPE, uploaded again showed the two files with check boxes, selected check boxes then submitted again, perhaps i am in some sort of trial by admin?


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
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  • Posted on: 13/6/2015 12:52
Re: How did they do that? 100 years ago. #18
Extra info, it?s 9 foot in diameter it almost looks pre-constructed although evidence suggests it was built in place because of the debris and hard-core on the external surfaces below ground is pretty much the same as if the concrete was poured in place, additionally the two clay pipes are part of the construction.

The depth I am not too sure of yet, it has a lot of silt in the bottom of the pond now and the gravel is very deep but at minimum a would say at least 3 feet as you can see I am in the process of cleaning it out.

Below are some pictures of it (one a bit out of focus), it still has some baby koi in it from last years fry.

Thanks

P.S. tried uploading JPG under 2 MB but it would not let me
Paul


paulgee paulgee
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Not too shy to talk
  • Posted on: 13/6/2015 12:25
How did they do that? 100 years ago. #19
Hello EV1

I have a 16th century building which has a large concrete bowl like pond in it! I have checked the history from previous owners and photographs and it has been there for at least 70+ years from a time when there were no polymer sealants, it could be older than this as one reference said it was built in the start of the 1900s over 100 years ago.

Another pointer is the clay pipes used for replenishing the water level and taking away excess water in an elaborate soak away system that is also part of the house, these are cemented into the bowl when it was cast and I am pretty sure are not additions, dating on these parts puts it to around the 1930-40s so hence the conservative guess at 70 years.

It is 100% waterproof never leaks and the PH is stable i.e. no lime from the concrete, will send pictures if you are interested.

I have looked around and most ponds these days and/or instructions for doing so include a lot of additives and/or sealers?

My question is how was this pond built does anyone know any of the old pond construction methods? I.e. just using render or just concrete? And how did they stop the lime?

I would like to extend the original pond to include other features, I have built a new pond beside it using a modern liner that is 7.5mtrs X 5mtrs and about 4 foot deep, I have built a very large filter medium out of two IBC 1000ltr containers using jap matt and volcano rock etc. everything is working well and the filters cope with the volumes of water and fish but I am stuck on how to build on the old pond to combine features using the original methods of construction as there is no way I wish to destroy it.

Any ideas, pointers or help would be appreciated.

Paul



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