wee cairn wee cairn
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  • Joined: 9/6/2017 21:43
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  • Posted on: 24/6/2017 8:58
Acclimating new goldfish - stress to the fish keeper #1
Hi all,

I posted on here a few weeks ago as my newly acquired goldfish displayed signs of a bacterial infection within a few days of bringing him/her home. Unfortunately he/she passed over night as I was looking on here for some advice. See my post under emergencies.

Rather than using the forum to only seek advice, I thought I would share my most recent experience; which has caused me some concern over the last day, but hopefully my experience can assist someone else in a similar position.

After keeping a reef tank for the last 4 years, I was quite disillusioned with the hobby and it was time for a change. I needed something that would stimulate my interest after having to admit ?defeat? with saltwater. Defeat is being melodramatic, but the time, effort and expense far outweighed the enjoyment, so it was time to draw that experience to an end.

I had thought about discus, which I had kept briefly many years ago, but the memory of seeing a tank of good quality fancy goldfish has stayed with me over many years, so my next set-up was to be fancy goldfish ? oranda?s to be specific. I don?t know why, but I just love the look of them.

After deciding to make fancies my next project, I set about looking for high quality fish. With respect to LFS, finding quality is like finding hen?s teeth. I had two options ? use local LFS or use an on-line specialist. I opted originally to seek out ?nice? fish from the LFS albeit not the highest quality or widest variety.

After my initial disappointment, I decided on using an on-line specialist and I am now the proud ?parent? LOL, of 4 magnificent oranda?s ? Calico red cap; Red; Panda and Tri-colour, but this is not the point of my post.

Given the distance between the dealer and myself, the fish when they arrived, had been in transit for around 16 hours or so; therefore I was prepared for apathy and some settling in, but I didn?t expect what transpired.

I have never had fish travel from the dealer to my tank for more than an hour, so I researched how to acclimate fish after a long journey. Unfortunately, whilst the Internet is a source of excellent information, it is also a haven for so much misinformation ranging from ludicrous to downright dangerous. Deciding what is actually properly researched advice and what is just regurgitated anecdotal information with no solid basis can sometimes be quite challenging.

Based on research and my own experience, I decided to float the bag for 15 minutes and check the PH when I opened the bag; which was around 6.6 and my normal is around 7.4. Some advice is to immediately transfer the fish into the tank and others is to add some tank water.

I have kept many types of fish for many years, but I have never been so stressed acclimating these wee guys. I was really starting to over-think the process simply because I was conscious they had been in a bag for so long.

I checked the PH, and added some tank water slowly over the next 20 minutes. I had read goldfish (perhaps most others as well) accept moving to a higher PH but are less tolerant of moving to a lower PH, but I don?t know the validity of this. I was now in a quandary ? do I add water and check the PH until I get a match ? but over what time period? 20 minutes / 60 minutes? I have acclimated many fish and even quite a few corals, but I was really starting to over-think this whole process, so it was time to add them to the tank.

Something I don?t think I have done before when transferring fish is to use my hands. I have noted on-line, many goldfish suppliers / breeders etc. often handle the fish. This seemed more pragmatic than trying to use the net, and certainly is how I would transfer these guys again if need be. Obviously certain precautions are required to ensure you don?t damage the scales with dry hands or drop the fish.

After 30-minutes of 3 fish sitting on the gravel, I was starting to be concerned. After 60-minutes, I was getting very concerned. Near 2 hours and I was worried. I had one fish moving about the tank pretty much how I would expect, but I had 3 fish that were just sitting there and when they moved, it wasn?t the most graceful. (Swim bladder issues??)

I was starting to second-guess my acclimation process and was concerned after being in a bag with a shallow body of water for so long, the extra pressure of the water depth was having an effect.

My tank is quite deep, so after about 30-minutes I reduced the water level, eventually over a period of time by 50% and whilst I was getting some lethargic movement, it was not filling me with confidence, but there was an improvement.

After 2 hours I phoned the dealer who assured me this was perfectly normal behaviour and not to worry. His advice was simply to ensure the fish have good water and not interfere with them.

After speaking with him, I started to fill the tank back up slowly and for a short period, my temperature started to rise and perhaps it was coincidental, but the fish seemed more alert and started moving more.

After a further 3 hours, I had 3 fish moving about, albeit 2 of them were quite lethargic, but at least there was an improvement. The following morning, I had the 4 fish moving about the tank slowly but this is exactly the type of behaviour I had expected shortly after putting them in the tank. I wasn?t expecting the level of lethargy and sitting on the bottom for extended periods of time.

This is the reason for my post. Goldfish I have come to learn, do behave in many ways differently from tropical / salt water fish and behaviour that I would normally associate with illness / severe stress, is perhaps not as abnormal as first thought.

My advice based on this experience being ? if you are transporting goldfish over an extended period of time, acclimate the way YOU are comfortable. Don?t over-analyse your process. Have a plan and stick to it.

Consider lowering the tank water depth for a period of time to help with any pressure difference associated with the fish being in a shallow body of water for such a long time. Increase the temperature slightly, either with a heater or with the new water being added and add an extra air stone.

My experience may be completely different from others and a number of factors could contribute to the behaviour I experienced and some of the measures I adopted may not be beneficial (not detrimental either) and maybe just a panacea for me to feel I am doing something.

The advice I will leave you with is the same, which the dealer gave me. Don?t worry; this type of behaviour is perfectly normal. Ensure they have good water and leave them alone.

Hope this short experience helps.
nikuyr nikuyr
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  • Posted on: 20/7/2017 9:45
Re: Acclimating new goldfish - stress to the fish keeper #2
This! I must admit I ordered some fish online for the first time ever a few months ago.

I used to keep tropical fish but eventually after they reached old age and swam to their clouds in the sky I sold the tank and concentrated on the cats. This year I decided I wanted a tank again but wanted fancies. I'd always had a soft spot for goldfish and whilst most say they're boring, easy or (actual quote from someone in a shop recently) "goldfish? why on earth when we have a heater and there's all these cool tropical fish??" - the words of someone who had no idea what they were doing.

Anyway, I'd gone to my local pet shop after my tank was well established to see what they had and nearly snapped the guys hand off over one particular beauty ? a red and black ?goldfish? they?d popped in a tank with shubunkins. He was bullied incessantly as he was the wrong fish to have in there. Anyway, I?m torn between whether he?s a ryukin or veiltail ? his tail is magnificent, nothing like your fantail or what have you.

Our Maidenhead Aquatics store is brilliant, there?s a guy there who is into his fancies. Every time I pop in he shows me videos from the breeder in Indonesia and gave me some Japanese special food for fancies which my guys LOVE. But after a while I was struggling to find what I had in mind so I ordered my first fish online. It was not a great experience. Despite being promised AM delivery, it didn?t show up until 1900 (not kidding). I unboxed them expecting agrizzle site but found the 2 of them were okay.

I dilly-dallied over how to acclimatise them. Dipped the bag, check parameters vs mine? added water slowly? panicked over the fish looking lethargic?. Couldn?t get them in the net in the bag and in the end did the same thing with hands ? I remembered seeing all the breeders doing it online so thought I?d do it (albeit more carefully! Online they seem to throw them around!) and actually, I prefer this now where possible ? I find there?s less chance of damage to the fish.

I?d tried to follow general guidelines but I was panicking because they?d been in transit for about 24hrs and everyone seems to recommend different things. Once they were in I was glued to the glass wondering if they were okay. They were both fine in the end so all was well but I think in that time my blood pressure had been through the roof.

The only time I have ever ?plonked? the fish straight in with no acclimatisation was when I came back from a 3 day stay away with work? I had 2 in my smaller quarantine tank ( one was the same aforementioned fish from the pet shop )? Walked in the living room and the small tank was cloudy and both fish gasping. Turned out the filter had stopped working and whilst I had left the husband to feed them etc. he hadn?t realised (in his defence he was single handedly looking after 2 cats, a dog and 5 chickens in my absence!). My special little one was turning upside down as well. So the best thing at the time to do was plonk them in the main tank ? it was the only thing to do to save them both. The special one who?d been upside down I was gutted for as I thought that was it and he?d die ? but within 3 hours he?d completely turned around and were both swimming around happily.
Oldie fancy goldies
wee cairn wee cairn
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  • Posted on: 20/7/2017 23:34
Re: Acclimating new goldfish - stress to the fish keeper #3
LOL easy to keep .........

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who found the whole experience stressful . I have had these wee guys in my tank now for about a month and from day one, it has been pretty awful. Loving the fish themselves, but my 'fancy goldfish experience' has really gotten off to a pretty poor start.

After a few days from my post, the fish started to settle in, but slowly. Over the coming week the problems started to manifest themselves -

1. white spot
2. anchor worm
3. fin damage from transit
4. scale damage from transit

Not a happy bunny as you can imagine

After a few days of watching the fish now that they were actually swimming about, the transit damage was becoming apparent. Not wanting to medicate straight away (to prevent any secondary infection), I monitored and just as well; for white spot broke out after about 2 further days. My tank is newly set up and fully cycled so clearly the 'ich' came as part of the package.

I also used Maidenhead and the lad was very good - even though I was taking my frustration out on him. Not his fault obviously, but he was getting the brunt of my frustration and concern. He recommended a pond treatment for the ich and thereafter an anti-bacterial treatment for any fin / scale damage and the wound near the pectoral fin. At this time, I didn't realise it was an anchor worm.

I treated the tank for Ich and when I realised it was an anchor worm, I was panicked. I have kept fish for many years but I have never had so many issues manifest themselves at the same time and I had never even seen an anchor worm before. Following advice from the dealer and some good information online, I managed to remove the worm without too much stress to either myself or the fish.

After a week of treatment and further week again with multiple W/C, I medicated with anti-bacterial and for nearly a week I could hardly see the fish - the water was deep green....

I am now just over a week on from finishing treatment and just when I thought all my concerns were behind me, I noted one of them was starting to have trouble keeping upright..... seriously, when was this nightmare going to end????

24hr without food and some peas thereafter the issue is now righted. I am very careful about diet, so was surprised when this started but seems to have righted itself very quickly, so no real drama.

As I say, I am loving the fish. They are beautiful and anything but boring, but the last month has been less than enjoyable - always glued to the tank looking for another problem and coming home or getting up in the morning and wondering if the fish are still ok.

Definitely not easy LOL

I have my doubts about one of them however. I'm not sure if it is just his normal behaviour or if he still has something underlying, but he spends more time than I would like, just happily floating. Not really moving. He seems ok otherwise and when he his moving about, he is moving fine.

Despite my less than perfect start, I am still very glad I decided to keep fancies.
nathangoudie nathangoudie
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  • Posted on: 21/7/2017 9:25
Re: Acclimating new goldfish - stress to the fish keeper #4
Hi,

Just so you guys know.

Acclimating is actually a process to get the fish get used to the new environment in the LEAST stressful way.

It's not only for fish, it's for human too. Human are much hardier so you don't usually notice the change but I think we all know that dumbing you into an environment too hot//too cold/ too humid that you are not used to can cause seriously problem -> Same for fish.

Best way for acclimating I would say is not put all of them into a bucket or a larger container with all the bags water -> Slowly add tank water until the water body is x3 the original amount -> run an air pump if you can in that container as long distance makes the water in the bag low in oxygen.

Regarding your fish has white spot and some worms:
- Fish do have some immune system - and these bacteria/worms egg are almost literally everywhere.
- It's not just because the environment is "dirty" - stressful fish has their immune system heavily degraded then these diseases starting to kick in. (I read somewhere about discus fish, they're a very special case. They have some kind of bacteria lives in their stomach and if the fish is stressed -> immune system down -> bacteria thrive -> fish dies)

Hope it's helping :)