Hello,
I recently posted about a hillstream loach and its mysterious death. Since then, all has not been well in my tank.
My 1 year old Black moor has started acting lethargic and either spending all his time floating to the top, or sinking to the bottom. He has periods of activity, but certainly isn't healthy. His fins are sometimes clamped to his sides for a minute or 2. Whenever he notices me, he goes back to his usual business.
The tank is reasonably well planted, 30 gallons and houses the black moor, 4 white cloud mountain minnows and 2 assassin snails. It is kept at 20c. I read water at every change and it rarely, if ever, changes.

pH 7.6
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-26
gh- 250

I read this 3 days ago, and treated the water with salt at 3ppm, something I have never done before. I suspected an internal infection (I do feed live food once a week). This hasn't made any difference whatsoever!

I've just read again and it remains the same. I see no other symptoms and just don't know what to do!

As always, I preface what I say by pointing out that I'm not one of the experts around here but that sounds like either swim bladder or a digestive issue, the two are often difficult to distinguish from one another but the causes are different.

First though, is the tank sufficiently aerated? Do you have any air stones or is the water surface sufficiently disturbed by the filter output? It's possible that oxygen could be low and so your black moor could be short on energy. Is there are any kind of discolouration? Guess it's kinda hard to tell on a black fish :-/ Do you have any living plants?

I've had two fancies with buoyancy issues and never managed to cure it permanently. I believe swim bladder is a bacterial infection of the swim bladder while indigestion causes bubbles to form in the intestines. The end result appears the same: floaty fish that struggle to compete for food. The primary difference in diagnosis is that indigestion causes your fish to poo bubbles! Have you noticed that at all?

I was advised to try adding aquarium salt (not table or cooking salt!) gradually up to 3ppm over a week but that didn't help mine and I noticed them pooing bubbles so I suspected indigestion.

Fancy goldfish should be fed sinking food, rather than floating, so they don't gulp air down with it. Their shape and organ layout makes them susceptible to indigestion problems. For indigestion I was advised to separate them and not feed them for 3 days which allows their digestive systems to empty, then feed them shelled garden peas for their first meal afterwards, which acts as a laxative to flush anything else out. That always cures my two, but the results usually fade after a few days back on a normal diet and I don't like doing it often. I tried soaking the food for an hour before feeding so it won't expand in their stomach but that didn't help.

If the fasting followed by peas approach makes things better then add more soft green veg to their diet, they like them and it helps ease digestion. Any skins or shells should be removed and tougher greens should be blanched and cooled to soften them up. Remove anything left after 24 hours.

If that doesn't help, there is a sticky thread somewhere here on swim bladder, perhaps some of the recommendations there will help.

Swim bladder post:

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... .php?topic_id=483&forum=1

I read the whole swim bladder thread last night and fed mine peas asap. This morning, they're a lot better so I'm going to rotate it into their diet every few days add other greens more frequently.

Somebody else also found that after trying most types of food, the problems went away when fed Love Fish pellets and the need for peas was much reduced:

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/ ... id=302617#forumpost302617

Some good advice there from Eeyore regarding having good aeration in the tank, feeding sinking foods (dry foods having been soaked first), and including soft green veg in the diet. Fancies are prone to these sorts of problems due to their squashed up body shapes affecting their swim-bladders and digestive systems. They often do better in slightly warmer water as this speeds up digestion so you could probably keep your tank at 22 degrees.

How often do you do your water changes, and what volume do you change each time? You should be aiming for at least a 25% change once a week.

How big is the moor? Just an 'aside' thought - mountain minnows are not ideal goldfish companions as goldfish will eat anything they can get in their mouths and as they grow the minnows will become food Also, minnows are best kept in groups of 6 or more. It might be worth considering rehoming them or setting up a second tank for them and increasing the shoal size. See the caresheets for coldwater species HERE.

Please fire away with any questions and we will do our best to help!

Brig

Hello,
The Black moor is fed the same diet as his parents (though a quarter of)- pellets 4 days a week, peas 2 days and Daphnia 1 day.
I'll try warming the tank up a little, see if this affects the condition at all.

I do once or twice weekly water changes and gravel cleaning- roughly 25% every time.

The moor is very small- he was housed in the Minnow tank when he was fry to avoid being eaten. He gets on very well with the minnows, though I am aware that when he is a bit bigger he'll try to eat them. The minnows were multiplying like nobody's business, I started off with 6, ended up with hundreds- I was giving them away! The wee black moor has ended the spawning as he ate their last (clutch??) batch of eggs. Recently the 2 big oldies passed away, leaving me with 4. I know it's not ideal but I only have 3 tanks and this is the only one that the moor can happily (ha!) stay in just now. Maybe I'll add a few extra- but not just now with a sick fish.

The tank has 3 airstones that are constantly running and a waterfall external filter.

ANother thing I have noticed- he is picking up food from somewhere that I can't identify. He was fed a Pea yesterday and had been fasted for 3 days before that. And yet he had bizarre floating airy black poop before the green came back out.

I'll give the Love Fish pellets a go, see if that helps at all. I'm also going to remove about 20% of the plants, or at least prune them considerably, to give open the tank up a bit more for him.

Black moor has just had his first feed in 3 days- half a shelled pea which seems to have made matters worse! Since my initial post there have been 3 water changes in the tank, 25% each! readings still at normal- will post in the afternoon as to his condition.

This is making me really upset as I really love little Butters. One of my workmates commented earlier that "it might just be his time"..... NOOOO!

Hi

Well one thing's for sure, if he's only about a year old it's not "just his time". Fancy Goldfish should live around 12 years if in good health.

Can I ask which test kit you use please? Also, as Fancies often have digestion problems leading to floatiness, it may be beneficial to raise the temperature of the water a little to 22C. Warmer water can help them to digest food more efficiently.

If the issue is chronic constipation, putting him in a bath of epsom salts may help too. Put some tank water in a bucket and dissolve about 1/2 a teaspoonful of epsom salts per gallon in there. Mix it 'til dissolved and then pop the fish in for 30 minutes or so.

I use the API test kit... I think it's the commonly recommended one on here.

I'm beginning to think it might just be chronic constipation-it's certainly not swimbladder, though is obviously a related problem. He's swallowing an alarming amount of air down and it's clear he's in some kind of discomfort. He's been fed only peas, carrot and courgette for the last few days which has changed his symptoms. I'm going to continue this diet for 2 weeks and see how he is. He certainly seems better now but all is still not right.

I've just turned the heater up 1c to 21, and will turn it up another degree tomorrow.

Epsom salts- I'll get some on eBay and give them a go too!

I have not yet done the epsom salts bath as I don't want to change too many things for him at once.
I acquired a fluval edge 10gal 2 weeks ago which I set about cycling as a NEW quarantine tank (every quarantine tank I've ever had seems to end up as a permanent home for a new pal!). I used a mixture of old healthy tank water and treated tap water, placed a very only plant in it and no substrate. It's reading well so Butters went in this morning.

he's acting exactly the same except in this tank his dorsal fin doesn't pop out the top when he's gone into his tired trance. I've also noticed that one of his eyes is looking very bloodshot. Not injured, just red around the rims.

Also, just a small note here, but what is the general concensus on the Fluval edge? I like the way it looks, but its filtration seems a little small for 10 gal, and awfully tall! Also, the light unit is taking on water when I lower it over the waterfall, so I've stopped using it and have set up an led spotlight on the side until I can make something to balance it on top. Oh well, I got it for £20 and it'll have to do!