Well, for the trying-it-out fishkeeper what about annual killifish if your water suits them?

http://www.killi.co.uk/AfricanAnnuals.php

I have never kept them and it is quite possible that in an aquarium properly kept they might live longer, but you are not looking at the lifespan of a goldfish, for example.

The main factors that have held me back from keeping marines are: cost - with marines we're talking thousands of pounds! You could set up a serious tropical freshwater fish tank for a fraction of the price of a small marine tank. Time - Do you have the time to put aside for tests, treatmeant and all the other stuff you have to do? Amount you have to learn - There is just so much to take in. Far more than tropicals.

I can see the appeal of marine and I have to say I have been tempted but the amount of enjoyment you will get from freshwater fish will be just as high as marines only without the stress on you or your wallet.

I started out just over 2 year ago with my first ever fish tank .... a marine one. I asked loads of questions on here first and printed out all my replies so I could sit and re read them over and over and over etc. I went on tonnes of web sites visited libraries, bought books, you name it I did it. My tank is doing really well and my interest in marine fish has developed into a fascinating hobby/obsession. I still ask questions because I don't know everything, I never will, but my FOWLR tank has developed into a reef tank that I absolutely love and I'm hoping to expand to a much larger tank soon. My sister keeps tropical fish and they are beautiful but my heart was set on marine, and I'm so glad I went with my first choice. I enjoy everything to do with keeping it from water tests to routine maintenance and the fish, well they're the most beautiful and entertaining little creatures ever. Some people keep a dog for company, me I keep marine fish....and just love them

Thank you so much Karen for proving it can be done if your willing to put the effort in.

Yeah , sorry , i'm talking out of my ass , ignore me .

Inevitably Boo for every ten people you find that advise patience and preperation there will be an exception.

Look at it this way -

1. Start at the basics, learn freshwater trops, hardy fish - MINIMAL RISK

OR

2. Straight into advanced water chemistry, use of water purification equipment, accuracy of additives and continued monitoring of water quality with up to 10 test kits simultaneously.
HIGH RISK

Option 1 means avoiding needless deaths, perhaps you have had no deaths but does that mean just because a fish doesn't die that it isn't suffering or innapropriately cared for??? Gaugeing success in fishkeeping by lack of death is nonsensical and a little amatuerish. We're beyond keeping animals alive here, we're talking about giving them quality of life.

Option 2 is high risk for those without foundational fish keeping skills. No matter how much you glam it up and attempt to discredit those with an opposing view, the fact remains that this is a challenging hobby and the animals deserve more than a headlong 'rush in', which no amount of reading or forum posts can prepare you for. People here are good but you have to be prepared to learn and we're not happy about advising remedial action when the fish are in the tank suffering, we want people to work with us so that our advice has maximum effect.

I think this has gone far enough now. Stating your opinion is one thing, and it's welcome, but it has to be backed up, you've done nothing so far to provide justification to your opinion. Saying 'Just go for it' just doesn't cut it for me.

Anyway, people have their own choices to make, I hope the op chooses carefully and takes into account all arguments and opinions. I'm sure he'll make the right choice for himself.

Quote:

At what cost???

Right then, first off i never said "just go for it" at all. It seems to me that the your only argument against marines is lack of experience and if you had your way everyone would go for freshwater fish first, which is a good idea to gain experience but if your not interested in fresh water fish then why waste your time?

Also why would you want anyone to experiment with freshwater on the off chance that they'll kill a few fish? What happens when they switch to marines, they'll kill a few more?

The fact is that this guy wants to keep marines for himself and for his son. Shame on all of us for arguing the toss about it. We should be supporting him in whatever choice he makes. If Karen and i can start off with marines than i don't see why anyone can't. Just coz you guys may have gone the other way round with things doesn't mean we all have to.

Surely it's worse keeping fish that you don't really want as a poss to trying your best to keep fish you really love! I think thats something some people may have forgotten.

Quote:

You may not have said that, but by suggesting that the OP dives straight in at the deep end and going straight in for marines, you are implying that very thing.

Quote:

Because we are talking about the lives of marine fish here. It MATTERS.

Quote:

Please point out exactly where anyone here suggested "experimenting" with fish lives in the "off-chance that they'll kill a few fish". We are in NO WAY suggesting the OP kills any fish at all. We are merely suggesting that he learns the easier hobby of freshwater fishkeeping first and THEN takes the step into marine.

By suggesting that the OP goes straight for marine fish, you are suggesting that it is OK to cause suffering and potential death to the first few fish that the OP decides to keep while he learns the hobby. That, IMHO, is poor fishkeeping advice which does not have the lives and wellfare of the animals at heart.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

Boo I don't have a problem with whatever the op decides to do, you should have figured that out by now, I have left the op to do what he deems best and we've all equipped him with the resources needed to make an informed decision.

What I do have a problem with is the seductive and persuasive tone of your posts which imply the whole thing is significantly easier than it is, this can and will mislead fish keepers. Start telling people WHY it's easier than we are saying, convince us, don't just paste over the subject with a 'it just is' attitude.

As for experementing on fish, again your showing a gross lack of experience on what is acceptable behaviour on FK. In freshwater we advise starting with the 'hardier/easier' (for want of better terms) fish before moving on to more difficult species. Exactly the same reason we'd advise taking on Angels before progressing to Discus... Freshwater before marines. It's all a logical progression designed to guide the vast majority of new fishkeepers in the right direction, there will always be instances of people doing things differently, good for them, but for the majority we ensure that the safest (for the animals) and most enjoyable (for the keepers through a steady non-stressful, non-reactive learning process) process is briefed out.

The consequences of glossing over a subject like this with over balanced optimism could be dire.

I think your misinterpreting what i'm saying. Like a said before in an ideal world everyone should start with freshwater first but i personally didn't. I went straight in at the deep end and got marines just like loads of other people out there did. I found it fairly easy and just coz some of you guys found it a bit more daunting doesn't mean that it's not possible to succeed.

Personally i can't believe we're still arguing about this. I agree with you about the fish keeping experience but i can also see that beginners CAN successfully keep marine fish if they put the effort in.

I don't even care if the op just buys a friggin gold fish now. (maybe he should to gain experience before getting in to trops!)