Hi,

Im new to the fish forums. I came home this evening to see all my fish with white flecks on their fins and tails. still all active. ive been trying to figure out if this could be White Spot??? any advice would be great as im very worried about my fish. I have a 35 litre tank, over a year old, with 2 Platys, 3 Zebra Danios, 1 Sucker fish (dont know his real name) 2 apple snails, 1 ghost shrimp and 2 clams. The clams and snails were added last, about 5 weeks ago. Since then my nitrates have been between 10ppm and 20ppm and I cant get them down. I have done frequent water 20% changes, and added a new Aqua Detox pouch to the filter (always have one in as Amonia, nitrite levels in the tank have been a nightmare since day 1!!) . Im now thinking that the nitrate levels could have caused whats happening to the fish. I had one shrimp die about 2 weeks ago. I have not added any new fish or plants recently, apart from above mentioned snails. Please help. Thank s

Having difficulty uploading photos!!!

Hi welcome to FK

If you are using attach file, only 1 picture per post, a have another go.

I will try and find you some pictures of whitespot to look at to check, but I expect water quality is a big issue, the tank is very small and overstocked and if you constantly have to use chemical filtration to deal with ammonia, the filter cannot cope, a bigger tank (or even a food safe plastic box as a temporary measure) would give the fish a much better chance of recovery

What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH today?

See ich pics

Hi,

Amonia 0, nitrite, 0 Nitrate 10 and ph 7.6. The nitrates have been up as high as 20ppm but water changes bring it down. I cant believe its overstocked, the guy in the shop said I would be fine to add the snails and clams with 6 fish already in there. he recommended it to help keep it clean. I try to do everything right and have no end of trouble with this tank. I have the filter that came with the tank????

ive tried again with pics !
What should I do right now to help the fish as cant get to pet shop until tomorrow??? I have salt and a HEATER????

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ANOTHER PIC

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Hi

That looks like a combination of white spot and the beginnings of fin rot to me. Unfortunately this is a direct result of poor water quality due to overstocking. The proof that the tank is overstocked is there in that you are having to use chemical absorbers to remove nitrite and ammonia because the filter can't cope with the amount of waste the fish are producing. In a tank stocked to the correct level that would not be necessary.

A 35 litre tank is really not big enough for fish - we recommend 45 litres just for single Siamese Fighting fish. Groups of small fish need at least 60 litres, and in the case of Zebra Danios even more to allow enough length for their fast swimming behaviour.

A general rule for tank stocking is to allow 4,5 litres of water per 2.5cms of fish (at adult size). whilst we would not recommend a tank as small as 35 litres for fish, if we were to apply that rule we would see that the actual water volume after deducting some for gravel etc. is around 30 litres. That means a maximum of 16cms of fish. You have 2 Platies at 7 cms each, 3 Zebra Danios at 5cms each, the sucking loach which I would guess is the Gold version of the Chinese Algae Eater who will eventually reach 28cms in length and become very aggressive, plus the shrimp and clams. That's massively overstocked in terms of water volume and filtration and is too small to give the fish room to swim properly. The Platies need a 2ft tank minimum. Zebra Danios need around a 3ft tank and the Loach preferably needs to go back to the shop, or needs a 4ft tank.

You can try medicating for the fin rot and white spot with a combination of eSHa Exit and eSHa 2000 which are known to be safe to be used together at the same time. However, with the tank being so small, adding medication may cause further problems for the fish, and the shrimp and clams may well be poisoned by meds. You really need to seperate the fish from the invertebrates to treat them, and they need a much bigger tank and filter (even a food-safe storage box as a temporary measure). Without a larger water volume, more space and better filtration they will continue to be unwell even if they survive this time.

Sorry if that all sounds rather scary, and I know you've acted in good faith based on the shop's advice, but I'm afraid the shop has been keener on a sale than on doing the right thing. we see it all too often unfortunately.

Thank you for the advice, I think its time to give up on the fish keeping. Its caused nothing but heart ache. I have been in constant contact with the guys in the large well know pet shop and have been advised on every move I have made. it seems now not in the correct way I love my fish and would never knowingly do anything to harm them. I have spent many sleepless nights worrying over this tank and this will be another one. I dont know what to do for the best now if adding meds could do more harm, the tank being over stocked, I dont even know what is meant by a food storage box??

It's any plastic storage box that is "food safe". Staples sell a range of plastic storage boxes calle "Really Useful Storage". These are "food-safe" which just means they don't leech chemical from the plastic so they are safe to keep fish in. They have one around 65 litres for about £12. With a small internal filter added and a heater (which your fish do need) it will give them more of a chance until you can afford a bigger tank as more water means more dilution of the waste, and a better filter (once it's cycled) will process the ammonia and nitrite properly for you. You can move the filter and heater to a proper tank when you can get one - eBay and Freecycle often have tanks at bargain prices.

I see, but surely I cant move the fish if they are sick??? Would it not stress them out even more?? Also would I set the box up as a new tank and put fish in it to cycle with fish in? or leave for fishless cycle?? Would I just transfer the contents of my tank (water, gravel, ornaments) to the box and add treated new water??? Im confused??

You would need to set it up and do a fish in cycle. A fishless cycle would take too long as I don't think your fish will cope for that length of time in the small tank. Similarly, moving them now would be less stressful than leaving them in the current conditions, especially if you are having to use medication.

I would set the box up without any gravel or ornaments, fill with dechlorinated water and move the fish across. Add a heater and gradually increase the temp to 22C over a few days. You can put the sponge from your old filter into the new one to give the cycle a kick start, but that would mean returning the snails, shrimps and clams to the shop as they would then have no filtration. They can't be moved with the fish because they will not do well with the medications you need for the white spot and fin rot.

Once the fish are moved, follow the guidelines here for a fish in cycle and treat with the meds recommended, but adjust the dosage to take account of water changes.