you need to read previous post as the betta was returned, no longer in the tank. i stated in previous post the gh kh. oh and the natural habitat for betta is shallow paddies, slow moving streams in thai land. you need to look a little deeper before pushing opinions that weren't relevant or requested.

please dont assume everyone on this forum is a beginner, we are just not claiming to be a know all.

Hi

The advice Violet has given was in good faith - and while Bettas live in shallow paddies, they are far from small - covering acres in fact. They are soft water fish, not recommended for community tanks especially with fish who occupy the same area of the tank and look similar enough to be seen as competition. Soft and harder water fish should not be combined in the same tank as the water can't suit both; one or the other will be living in a less than ideal environment.

Any advice given is for the benefit of the fish, and it would be remiss of us not to mention potential problems when spotted.

i get that , the clown loach is a potential issue which we recognise and accept . the guppies / fighter situation is not potential as it actualised and is now resolved. also guppies and fighters can live in neutral to slightly hard, mine is actually neutral. every fish is unique , some fighter live happily with guppies others dont.

Quote:

Quote:

As fish get bigger they harder to mmove on soi dont assume that when your clowns get bigger somebody will take them.

1) Clowns need a shoal of at least 6 in order to be happy as they are very gregarious and need to live in groups. 2 is nowhere near enough, and you will see them become lethargic and withdrawn.

2) Clowns live for in excess of 40 years if looked after correctly. Just buying them to move them on later is the wrong attitude. Would you do that with a dog?

3) Clowns need a water flow a lot greater than that of any normal tropical tank, normally 3 to 4 times greater.

4) They can grow to 8" within 12 months if fed and cared for properly.

Take your tank into consideration with the points above then you will see the fish is completely unsuitable for your setup. Please read the article about loaches in Violets post. Never buy any fish that you will have to rehome later knowing your own setup is inadequate for that species especially as in your own words you are not going to upgrade later. Only buy those that you can keep for the full term of their lives comfortably and without compromise to their welfare. Read the Animal welfare act 2006 as it now includes fish. Its Not Just A Fish!

first off how dare you make assumptions about how we treat or view any one of our fish. secondly, taking the clown loach back was in response to being told to re house them, insulting considering nobody on here knows us or our circumstances. we have had the clown loach 2 weeks as new tank so introducing fish slowly. we planned on getting more. we sought advice from numerous sources including local experts who informed us that clown loach very rarely reach 10 inch and that can take 10 yrs...in which time we will have bigger tank. we wouldn't wait till they outgrew tank, 5 inches and they'd be in larger tank. we come on here for advice because we obviously care about welfare of fish. too many people go through these posts looking for something to bitch about. all night i've been forced to defend myself as you all jump down my throat. i'm sure your all perfect. 1 rule for one, different for another. references to fk caresheets been thrown in my face alot tonight, but keeping lrg angel fish with plecos is ok for the fishlady when it clearly states differently on fk caresheets. we have spent over a grand on this setup, plus all test kits etc to ensure they have the best living conditions, all this because we dont care. there just fish.....i haven't implied that once. dont be so ignorant and keen to judge people based on few posts on internet forum!!! SAD

Hi,

I'm sorry you feel that responses have been a little blunt, but received wisdom with many loaches (especially clowns) is that they need large groups and consequently large aquaria.

As you have explained you have done everything right so far in terms of cycling etc, it's just that clowns are such a specialist animal to care for.

Stick with it, the advice from FK has been invaluable to me in terms of the welfare of my pets even when it's frustrating when they won't let me have what I want!!

JON

Nobody is judging you. We are trying to offer you advice that will benefit your fish. Please bear in mind that posts on this site are viewed by a lot more people than the original poster who also need that advice and when other issues apart from the first posed question become apparent we ensure these are highlighted for the benefit of the OP and anyone else who may be reading.

It's a sad fact that the majority of problems that arise are due to poor advice from shops and the majority have done their research by asking the shops for advice. They then find they have inappropriate fish for their water conditions, for compatibility with each other or for the size of the tank they are to be kept in.

The point about Clown Loachews was raised because these fish are all too often sold in groups too small to be comfortable for a very social fish and to be housed in tanks that are much too small. It was raised particularly because you had very specifically stated:

Quote:

I don't believe anyone doubted that you care about the fish, but we did believe you may have been another victim of misinformation and we were trying to help as if you keep them then you will need to upgrade fairly quickly (they do most of their growing when young) and you will need to increase their number.

Finally, I will answer one point you made:

Quote:
The caresheet for plecs says:

Quote:

My Angels are not yet "large" they are only around 4 inches long and have more growing to do. My plec is not yet adult and there currently are no issues with territory in the 5ft tank they live in. I have several other large tanks ready and waiting into which the Angels will be moved at the appropriate time otherwise I would not have had them. I am not one to say one thing and do another or to take on fish without having appropriate housing available for them.

One more point which was not addressed earlier - your water is too soft for the livebearers. The minimum gH for both Guppy and Platy is 180dH. Yours at 107dH is verging on soft. Your pH is neutral, your hardness is not and a pH of 7 is at the very lowest end of tolerance for these fish.

As you are probably aware a high volume of captive breeding has led to guppies being extremely tolerant of different parameters, apart from that they are a very hardy fish anyway. I have read all my fish books and guppies are ok in my tank in fact they can live in medium to hard water. I stated that I briefly had a siamese fighter that did not get along with my guppies and he nipped a couple of tails. The guppies tails have now nearly fully grown back!! Obviously this is due to the fact they do not like to live in my tank conditions. As for upgrading I didn't want to upgrade just to get the shark fish best suited as we've not long had the tank but its different now considering we already have the clowns. We are responsible fish keepers who want the best for our fish and to be told to go and look at the animal welfare act is insulting. In my opinion 14" is quite large, and your angels looked not far from fully grown. Also plecos like lots of hiding places which your tank lacks. But thats just my opinion, I was going to keep it to myself but since we're all sharing.

Quote:

Quite a lot of the 'hardiness' has been bred out of guppies nowadays due to over breeding them. The guppies you see in fish shops need good conditions to their liking to be able to thrive.