Hi everybody,

I'm temporarily looking after my friends' house and fish while they're out of the country.

On the first day, I noticed that one of their oranda goldfish was behaving erratically. "He" (not sure of their sex) was thrashing around in the water, opening and closing his mouth widely and genrally seeming distressed at not having any food. I'd been a bit stingy with their flake food as wasn't sure how much they'd been fed that day. I put in a few additional flakes and thought nothing more of it.

The next day, I realised the problem is actually that he has very poor eyesight. He can see when the other fish are swimming up for food, but is unable to see the food itself. Instead he swings his head wildly at the top with mouth wide open until a flake happens to go into his mouth.

He has a larger wen than the other oranda in the tank, and the bottom half of his eyes is obscured by his "cheeks", in a way that seems normal for the breed. I don't know if it is also normal for these fish to have such poor eyesight? I can't see any cateracts or signs of infection (although not sure I know all the signs of infection to look out for) and he does look healthy - as do all the other fish. However, not being able to see does seem to be causing him some distress.

Should I be taking further action?

Thanks.

Hi - welcome to FK Hmm, it doesn't sound too much like an eyesight problem, sounds like something else might be giving him some issues. Can you give us a bit more info as the bigger picture can often provide some clues

How big is their tank?

How many are in there?

How old and how big are they?

What sort of filter do they have?

Does your friend test their water? If so does she have any test kits knocking about so you could test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate which are the usual suspects for causing problems?

When you say thrashing around was it an excited 'ooh look, the bringer of food is here' dance or did he look genuinely distressed about something? Goldies can get very excited about the prospect of food

I know they're not your fish but it might be worth getting them some sinking food like Tetra Gold Japan. If you soak this in a little cup of tank water for a few minutes it sinks as soon as you put it in. Fancies often do better with sinking food, eating from the bottom is a more natural behaviour for them and you might find he can see it better.

Does the head growth cover his cornea or is it just quite 'chubby'? My ranchu has poor eyesight (he has cloudy eyes, always has ever since I bought him, didn't notice til I got him home as he was so tiny but I wasn't about to take him back!). But he has no trouble finding food, they have a good sense of smell so track down food pretty easily

Does he look in good condition? No red streaks in his fins/tail or red patches that aren't his natural pigment? Any fluffy bits or frayed bits? Does his mouth look clear if you look inside it?

Any chance of a pic of him? Sometimes a pic speaks a thousand words

HTH, hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it

Hello,

Thanks for such a prompt reply!

I've been trying to take pictures of him on and off all day, but I don't think my camera was made with motion/underwater shots in mind and they've all come out blurry. Not a good start.

I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can.

In the tank there are:
-2 oranda - about 9cm each, but the sick one is longer and larger than the other.
-1 black moor - about 8cm
-1 lionhead (I think) - about 7cm
-4 tiny little tetras of unkown subtype (one might be a neon) that are no more than 3cm tops.

That's eight fish. The tank looks too small, to be honest - especially for the oranda, although I know they don't swim too fast. It's a traditional bowl shape of what I would have thought is about a 30litre capacity. The filter seems fine, though. It's a built-in biorb one. I guess it's from a pet shop.

I can't see any testing kits, but then I don't think they would have bothered to tell me where they were if they do have them. They will be back before the end of the month!

The wen doesn't cover his cornea - it's just large - but the bottom of the cornea is obscured by his face. Not in an unnatural way, though. It looks kinda normal.

Re: the goldfish's behaviour, he is definitely responding the prospect of food, but not in the same way as the others. In his eagerness he swims into the side of the bowl repeatedly. Like I said, when the food goes in all the others make a beeline for it and know exactly where it is. This one can't seem to find individual flakes and is just mouthing empty water, swimming around erratically and often bumping into the other fish. He just seems to have some kind of sensory impairment.

Would the sinking food be good for all the fish in the tank? It's just the oranda that seem to forrage on the floor.

I'm afraid I've no idea how old the fish are, but I think they're all fully grown. I suppose his behaviour could be explained by old age.

His condition seems excellent to me. There are none of the signs you mention on him or any of the others...

I hope those weren't totally useless answers!

4 goldfish in a 30L biorb?
Can you tell us what the stuff on the bottom looks like, is it little chunks of lava rock? If so you can't feed sinking food, the fish risk injury tyring to root about in it. Which is a shame because that's part of their normal repertoire of behaviour.
You could try putting in a big chunk of peeled cucumber, he might find some of that. Stick a teaspoon through it to weight it down and take it out after 24 hours.

Did they leave dechlorinator? Im sure the fish would benefit from a water change - say a third to a half.

Hello,

Yeah, it's just over 30L, but not filled to the brim. I double checked with a tape measure just now. I did kind of wonder if the largest one was just distressed at having nowhere to go. :(

OK, I'll look into doing a one third water change for now, and see if that makes a difference.

There are some lava type rocks at the bottom, but not many. I won't risk it. Maybe the cucumber would be a good idea in the meantime...

Hello,

I know you're just looking after them for friends and we'll try and help you with that, but maybe you could send your friends here when they get back for some longer term advice as the Biorb is very inadequate for most fish, and Goldfish in particular. In the right environment they should be growing to an adult size of around 8 inches long and need a much, much bigger tank.

As I say, I know there's not really anything you can do about it, and it's good that you've noticed the Oranda has problems, but your friends would be very welcome here to find out about giving these fish a better life.

Thanks, I will definitely drop a hint if I can do so without causing offence. They live walking distance from a petstore, where I had to go to get dechlorinator as I couldn't find theirs. The guy there was very knowledgeable, so I might mention I spoke to him.

I have a good reason for mentioning it now, as the black moor is REALLY ill. :( :(

I noticed he was looking a little ropey before the 1/3 water change, but that just made him even worse. He was completely disorientated, and constantly coming up for air. Then he floated to the top of the tank for over an hour and couldn't stay down. I honestly thought I'd killed him.

He's looking a lot better now, but he's still struggling and hasn't quite regained his equilibrium. I'm worried he's going to be gone before my friends get back, and I don't know what to do.

On the plus side the oranda is looking much better, but he's still a bit erratic, and I swear I saw him bite the poor sick black moor!!

I just wish I could take the big fish away somewhere nice to be looked after...

You could try this trick from the Simpsons:

Millhouse's goldfish

Would they let you take / buy the fish from them?
It's a shame that they have to live in those conditions.

I'm not sure about the black moor, could be just shock from a temp difference in the water change? Or different quality water - if you reduce nitrates/ other toxins suddenly, this can upset the fish. Hopefully he comes round :/

You are such a good TempFishMum, you really should be a FullTimeFishMum

Can you be swayed to the watery side perhaps. It's a lovely hobby/passion

Mods here can make posts magically dissappear from general view (you still have full access of course) to avoid any red faces if needs be, if you recommend FK We just need a heads up first, when they get back.

Noods/Suey/cathie et al, have magic buttons you know!!!!

Thanks, both, for the lovely posts.

I laughed a lot at the Millhouse's goldfish joke.

I'm back home now, but it turned out I had a much more difficult conversation with my friends as their extractor fan tried to kill me last week! Consequently any fish-related conversations were put on the back burner, although I did mention that the man at the petstore was very good, and I think they will talk to him.

The Black Moor is still very sick, and I gather there was another one that went belly up a while ago. Clearly the tank is just not suitable for that breed, and the way he doggy paddles around would suggest severe stunting. It breaks my heart, but I think it would be too late even if I could take him away.

I would love to be a full-time fish mum, and used to have some as a teenager before a Herring pecked its way into the pond and ate them. Still not sure how it got in there! Alas circumstances do not currently permit it...

Thanks for all your help on here, and good luck with your own little fishies!! x